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[Howando]

Writing descriptions can be tricky.  It's best when you can summon up the essence of the item in a few words.  "This spear is 6 feet long, the wooden shaft ends in a steel tip with an evil looking barb.  It feels well balanced and perfect for throwing."  Apart from some stats and specials, what more is needed?  But for items that are unique or have lore associated with them, you might want a couple of paragraphs to get across the story and the essence of it, because that's the whole point of the game is that kind of atmosphere.

You can also utilise broader class descriptions to produce shorter item descriptions.  If all magical staves in your world are huge ornate wonders covered in gruesome carvings topped by a huge glowing orb, you can just explain that is the case in the relevant section and then your item descriptions can just highlight the detail, "The figures carved on this staff appear to be engaged in a gleeful orgy of fire and death.  When you raise it above your head the dark red orb is filled with an intense light."  If you have to break the mould a little and maybe one staff is smooth or made of twisted metal or the knob is a small amethyst, you can compare it to the standard type to draw on that overall impression still, and highlight what is interesting.

[MaximumZero]

Well, guys, this is it. I'm necromancing the thread one more time for a particular cause. I've been largely unable to work on the game for quite some time due to highly unstable work/living conditions, and now I'm drowning in debt. I'm seriously considering setting up a GoFundMe page or Kickstarter or Indiegogo or something, but I'm not sure what the reaction to said page would be, or even if it's worth doing.

This damned game should be finished by now. It should have been finished years ago. I spend all my free time trying to relax from work or being stressed about living arrangements, or freelancing, or being dragged into court/lawyers' offices/what have you by my ex wife. I'm emotionally drained, mentally petered out, and physically exhausted. I'm frustrated that I've taken so long to even get to the point that I have, and it feels like the finish line will never be crossed at this pace.

On the flip side, I'm also extraordinarily nervous about putting my work out into the public arena. Every word I've ever put to page has been shredded by people I used to hold very dear, and every time I open the file to work on it, I hear nothing but the sound of being berated over and over again for being worthless and how I could be doing something better with my time and how there's no point to doing this. I spent years hearing this, and as you can imagine, it's eroded my confidence to nothing.

So, I ask you, B12ers who are potentially interested in my game, what say you? I'm not asking you directly for money, and never would, but should I do the crowdfunding thing? Is there enough potential? Do I have enough material? Am I just being too self-doubting?

[EagleV]

Well, first of all, that's sad to hear. From what little you can know about people on the other side of a forum, you sound like a great guy and I hope you get in a better situation soon.

Secondly, about your game.

I hear nothing but the sound of being berated over and over again for being worthless and how I could be doing something better with my time and how there's no point to doing this. I spent years hearing this, and as you can imagine, it's eroded my confidence to nothing.

It's your time. Even if you were wasting it, it'd be yours to waste, and you are not. You are working on something, creating something you and others (me, for one) believe in, and that is always worth doing. It's also worth doing well, and that costs time. I'm fairly certain people were telling Gygax was wasting time. Or Zuckerberg. Or any of the other Fathers Of Great Things. Of course, for every FOGT, there are many people that are less lucky, but even if this becomes a relatively unknown or niche game, it'll be great to have.

So, I ask you, B12ers who are potentially interested in my game, what say you? I'm not asking you directly for money, and never would, but should I do the crowdfunding thing? Is there enough potential? Do I have enough material? Am I just being too self-doubting?

I think you should. Of course, the amount of material you have to show is difficult to guess, and I don't know how much you're willing to show before completion - from what I remember, not too much. There is certainly potential, and I, for one, would be happy to send a little boost your way. Importantly, if your kickstarter fails, nothing is lost in terms of money: "If funding isn't successful, there are no fees." One bad thing I see happening is that if it should fail, it would be another blow to your morale, which is worth considering. Still, with the quality that I think your stuff will have, you could certainly be successfull in a well-planned kickstarter campaign.

As you might have guessed, people say I'm a bit naive. I'm also bad at explaining feely stuff. And I seem to use way too many clichés. But I hope you go on with this, one way or another, many other b12ers seem to think so too, and I think that's what you need to be reminded of.

As an afterthought, I'm sure you'll find reviewers aplenty on these forums if you need some feedback before you go public.

[Kadzar]

I'll echo the first part of what EagleV said (or, at least, the parts before and after the first quote), but disagree with him on the idea of Kickstarter being a good idea. Because it's not. At least, not for your first time trying to publish something.

For one thing, you only have so long to try to sell your game. And in that time, you need to promote the hell out of it. I'm sure there are some people who approach Kickstarter with the philosophy of "if we build it, they will come", but I've never heard of anyone like that actually getting funded.

Also, and please don't take any offense to this, as far as the RPG industry/community/scene is concerned, you're basically nobody at this point. If you want anybody besides friends/family/a few morbidly curious strangers to invest in your game, you'll want a name involved that, at the very least, a few hundred people can recognize and trust. That, or celebrity endorsement. If you can't offer that, people are at least going to want a very good demonstration of what they're paying for, if they don't have a sample of anyone's previous work to go by or somebody they know to tell them it's good.

And even if you do manage to get funded, there are all kinds of potential pitfalls in the process of fulfillment. For one thing, you better damn well account for any potential costs you'll accrue in trying to get people's orders to them, and then be prepared for all kinds of hidden costs you never even considered to sneak up and screw you in the bum. And unless whatever publisher you plan to use is willing to handle shipping for you, consider just how much time it would take you to personally handle the shipping orders of several hundred backers (Really, if you plan to ship anything yourself, it should probably only be for Limited tiers).


Really, as someone new to the RPG publishing scene, I'd recommend going the Print-On-Demand/PDF distribution route (actually, I'd even encourage industry professionals to at least include it in their repertoire, and most of them actually do). Lulu and DriveThruRPG are the two that I can think of most readily, and, unless I'm misunderstanding something, there aren't fees to be paid so much as just that they take a cut of each sale, and you don't have to reach some arbitrary goal to actually make money (there's probably a minimum amount of money you need to make before they cut you a check, but it should be much less than you'd ask for a Kickstarter).

Alright, so looking into it, they do charge some minor fees, but that's only to cover the cost of book printing or, in Lulu's case, a very minor one to cover the cost of PDF hosting. After aforementioned fees, Lulu takes 10% for PDFs and 20% for books, while DriveThruRPG takes 30-35% for either, depending on whether or not you are an exclusive partner with them (exclusivity only applies to distributing digital formats, like PDFs and such).

So so far, Lulu looks like it's winning by pure numbers, but don't count DriveThruRPG out yet. While Lulu is just generally a PDF/print-on-demand site, DTRPG is a devoted RPG store, with categorization by things like genre and rule system, and boasting a wide selection of titles, including some from such famous publishers as Fantasy Flight Games, White Wolf, and even freaking Wizards of the Coast, just to name a few (basically, pretty much everyone who doesn't already have their own PDF store). So it's the kind of place where you're more likely to be seen by your target demographic, whereas on Lulu, as best I can tell, if you're look for RPGs you have to search through the Games section, which also contains things like guides to poker and chess, so it's less than ideal on the user end.

So I'd probably recommend going for both Lulu and DriveThruRPG, since any money you leave on the table by going for the latter is likely made up for by greater exposure. I might check into what it takes to terminate your agreement with them, just in case you feel it's not working out (in either case), and possibly look into what the Exclusive account for DTRPG entails (they mention "enhanced title rotation" and "bonus on-site promotion", but I think getting more information about that would require contacting them directly, which probably isn't a bad thing to do before you get started.

In addition to all this, I'd recommend promoting your game and yourself on other sites (probably RPG-related, though, who knows, some cooking forums might be really interested in what you have to offer). I think you know enough about salesmanship to do this with proper tack, so the last piece of advice I'm going to offer is maybe have a demo version of your product you can direct people to so they can get an idea of what it's like before they put down money. It's something that helps if you don't have a lot of hype in place already.

Alright, that's it from me. Get out there and make your game! (Or in there. You can probably just make your game where you are right now.)

[Bauglir]

If you do set up something with one of those sites Kadzar mentioned, I will buy a copy. Worth a couple dozen dollars just to satisfy my curiosity on what you've been cooking all this time, and getting a spiffy game out of it besides would be marvelous gravy. Can't speak to how well the market at large would fly for you, but if you're able to wrangle the time and energy to put it together I think it may not be a bad scheme.

[MaximumZero]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I really appreciate it. Many warm fuzzies were had this day.

Also:

Also, and please don't take any offense to this, as far as the RPG industry/community/scene is concerned, you're basically nobody at this point.

Yeah, no, I totally get that. I'm not terribly marketable as a brand because no one knows who I am and they won't until I have a major product under my belt. On point. That's one of the reasons I was asking if it was even a good idea to use crowdfunding.

Worth a couple dozen dollars just to satisfy my curiosity on what you've been cooking all this time, and getting a spiffy game out of it besides would be marvelous gravy.

A couple dozen? I guess if I do this I actually have to think about reasonable price points, eh? (I was thinking less than $20, but that may not be feasable with the aforementioned self-publishing. I was actually looking at Ookoodook as one of my primary markets, alongside things like Order of the Stick books. As well as Amazon/Kindle, B&N/Nook, other mobile media marketplaces, etc. I'm not expecting to sell a ton of physical copies, because a) they're expensive to produce, and b) digital is a lot easier to carry. Then again, people like hardcover books. I sure as hell do. So many options. -.-

Anyway, I'm going to get writing while I watch the baseball game. This should be a nightly ritual for me. I move at the end of the month, so we'll see
what kind of progress has been made at that point and go from there. I'm excited again, you guys. This is the first time in a long time.

[Bauglir]

For now, though, I'll see if I

That's weird, I didn't see you mention Candlejack. Anyway, I tend to be a bit more willing to shell out for stuff like this, since I do it rarely; a lower price point surely won't hurt, especially if it's digital. Dunno if those sites support pay-what-you-want, but it might be a good i-

[MaximumZero]

Heh. This is what I get for hitting post after midnight.

[SalmonGod]

I also don't see crowdfunding working out very well.

But whatever you do, just don't give up.  Life happens and ideas get put on hold.  So long as you return to them when you can, there's nothing wasted.  If you publish something, I'll probably buy it.  Hope your situation improves.  I saw you mention something elsewhere of a potential major promotion?  Let's get those promotions together!  Interviewing for mine probably next week.

[MaximumZero]

Well, I've won three district-wide sales contests in a row, and I may be in the running to be recruited by a major company to run my own store. That would put my salary at at least triple what I make now, putting me squarely in the middle class for the first time in my life. That's not factoring in bonuses, whole-store commission, and benefits, which puts me somewhere between 3.5x and 6x what I make a year now.

Fingers crossed. It's a big jump, but I'm ready to take it.

[SalmonGod]

Mine isn't that big, but still pretty big.  I'm shooting for something in the range of a $18-23k increase in pay, which is like a 60% increase for me.  Will also put me pretty well in the middle class, and doing better than almost anyone I know IRL who isn't at least 10 years older than me.

Keep rocking the bread winning.  Neo Dreams will bloom in time.

[MaximumZero]

Yeah, I'm starting at a hypothetical $20k-ish/year. Middle class is a loooong way away for me.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I need and appreciate every iota I can get. Nothing else could possibly help me as much right now. (Except cash, but lol.)

[MaximumZero]

I finished the chart containing all of the animals tonight. So, raw numbers (which I've always found harder than descriptions,) are done for 100 animals, 100 combatants, and 100 monsters, as well as 100 (base) weapons and 100 (base) pieces of armor, 35 metals, 13 types of cloth, 14 types of leather/hide, 19 types of stone, 21 types of wood, 13 types of glass/stoneware, 8 types of horn/antler, 11 types of fangs/teeth, 13 types of shell/scale, 11 types of claw, 10 types of bone, 11 types of feather, and 10 types of fur/pelt.

If you can't find something to fight or craft, that's your own damn fault. I guess this means that the game will be sort-of-dungeon-crawl-able when I a)finish the "other" equipment (bedrolls, torches, professional tool kits, tents, rope, ye flask, rations, medicines, and various other miscellany,) and b) get all this shit put together in the same file. I was a lot closer to that point than I thought I was.

Edit: I did some writing and put down bits and pieces of the backstory of how the afterlife works. Note: the information here is in a very, very rough state and should be treated as such. Also, all of my worldbuilding is completely optional (just like in every other P&P game.) If you want to read it, have at it. I'm not sure how interesting it's going to be, though. Also, the formatting will definitely leave something to be desired, as copy&paste from word doesn't translate well to BBCode. I'm also fairly certain it repeats itself in places. I just needed to get it out of my head. There's a lot more floating around in there (a lot more!) I ran out of time to write.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The World of the Afterlife: Ullardvar
•   The whole world is in a semi-primordial state, and seems to be one huge, expansive landmass encircled by an endless ocean. Reports of islands off of the coasts of Ullardvar (the Great Continent) have recently been confirmed by scouts of the Rashandii Imperial Navy. One of these islands is home of the Ethereal Catacombs, home of Amaranth Contin, the Great Destroyer of Life.
•   The Great Continent is home to hundreds of empires and kingdoms, as every would be despot and noble who has ever lived and can resist the call of the Crystal Spire has set up their own borders and claimed their own territory. Thankfully, most of these countries are largely toothless, as establishing a permanent military is extremely difficult due to the constant movement of souls through the afterlife.
•   The Wilds of Ullardvar, which is most of the continent, are dangerous as they are expansive. North of Rashand, the afterlife’s largest Empire, lies a great ever-shifting desert, the Kahlagra, that swallows even the hardiest of explorers. Many people claim to have found ruins among the ever-swirling sand, but are unable to locate them afterward. Mapping the desert itself is impossible, but its borders have been completely outlined. To the north of the Kahlagra lies a forest of immense trees all made of bone and flesh. The rains shift from the black water of Ullardvar proper to a constant blood red mist and dense fog. Here, in this expansive amphitheater of the grotesque, is the home of The Bonesmith, a powerful and wicked lich who binds his victims to the forest and forces them to patrol in search of ever more prey. The Bonesmith seeks to perfect the form of the Wendigo, the eater of men, to destroy the Rashandii empire.
•   The Wilds of Ullardvar are largely uncharted beyond the Weald of the Bonesmith, although traders have come through the Kahlagra claiming to be from Kingdoms and Outposts beyond the farthest horizon. Ships have also sailed into Saludrai, the capital of Rashand, claiming to be from various parts of the unexplored continent, although the maps of these explorers and merchants have proven to be inconclusive evidence at best.
•   People have claimed to find: ancient 1st Era ruins, lairs full of mechanical beasts, dormant volcanoes (Ullardvar has never shown any kind of outward geologic activity. No earthquakes, no lava flows. Furthermore, as the world was created by magic at the same time as Avarsiin [and may actually be a different version of Avarsiin] the geological strata appear to be randomly distributed.)
•   To both the west and the east of Ullardvar lie island chains that sprawl away from the continent. Most of the charted islands are simply uninhabitable spires of rock jutting away from the black ocean water

The Empire of Rashand
•   The Empire of Rashand is a vast swath of land on the southern end of the Great Continent, spanning several thousand miles from the South Ocean inward. Despite its status as the largest country in the afterlife, the Rashandii empire spans only just over half of one percent of the largely unexplored Ullardvar.

Divarin’s Crystal Spire
•   Everyone in the afterlife is drawn to it and must make a will save to withstand it’s cursed wailing and powerful draw upon their soul. Players who touch the spire are reborn as new characters. The current character is lost in the process of reforging the soul. The Spire is necessary to maintain equilibrium between life, death, and rebirth, as spiritual energy is finite, having been created by the self-sacrifice of The All-Seeing One, who is the world, the sun, the moons, and the afterlife.

The Ethereal Catacombs
•   A huge, sprawling series of labyrinths that dive miles into the ground to house the madman Amaranth Contin. The mazes are filled to the brim with horrible, warped abominations (not found in the monster list,) created by Contin that serve to destroy all who would slay him. These perversions of life are twisted and molded out of the very souls of the would-be heroes who invade the Catacombs, and they are bound to the Catacombs like Contin, also suffering his madness from constantly being torn apart by the siren call of the Crystal Spire.


•   The Temple of the Ten Faces
o   This temple is an enormous alabaster structure that is famed as the only safe structure in the Wilds. It lies to the west of Rashand’s borders, and operates independently of any government. The Temple is the place that the dead find themselves upon waking in the afterlife for the first time. It is rumored that a piece of the Spire rests at the heart of the Temple, and is the key to immortality.

Major NPCs

•   Amaranth Contin
o   The Big Bad of the Afterlife. Seeks to destroy all life and spiritual energy to end all suffering. Must be contained in the Ethereal Catacombs or is a potential danger to consume everything in his path. Driven mad by being unable to answer the call of the Crystal Spire due to being contained in the Black Tower. Has the power to bind, deconstruct, warp, and completely eliminate spiritual energy, including the souls of people. Master mage who prefers necromancy and relies on quick teleportation to disorient foes. Once obliterated nearly the entire population of Rashand’s capital (several million souls) save the Emperor Vasher Uvtrali, in an attempt to conquer and annihilate the afterlife itself. Contin eventually failed when the council of Gods themselves banished him to an outlying island, binding his soul to one spot in the afterlife to prevent his corrupt energy from re-entering the Crystal Spire and therefore the general populace of Avarsiin. He has twisted his little island into the Catacombs, and filled it with the screaming remnants of the Astruumh Cataclysm, permanently corrupted into misshapen horrors, doomed to never be reborn unless freed by intrepid adventurers.

•   The Bonesmith
o   A horrific lich who dominates a huge warped forest of bone and flesh beyond the Kahlagra, named the Weald. Summons enormous quantities of skeletons, zombies, and other undead creatures, including a monstrous Whipstitch Creature that contains the body parts of over a thousand creatures.

•   Llewellyn Diravah
o   Diravah is the Lord of Akrishan, a country far to north of Rashand. No one in Rashand has met Diravah, but correspondence between the two countries has continued for well over two hundred years. Akrishan is not marked on any Rashandii map, despite Uvtrali’s best efforts to find it.

•   Suundra Gharadil
o   Gharadil is the leader of a small band of Merfolk who live in the Blackwater Cove, on the south end of Rashand. She is a fierce warrior despite a beautiful, albeit scarred, face, and enjoys entertaining scouts and mercenaries in the White Pool Lodge in Astruumh with stories of the horrors that lurk beneath the waves of the Endless Ocean.

•   The Clockwork Puppeteer

•   Vasher Uvtrali
o   The Emperor of Rashand. Rashand named for his long-since Crystal Spire-bound wife’s family. He has ruled Rashand for what appears to be over a thousand years, since nearly the beginning of the Second Era. He was an inconsequential minor noble in life, but in the afterlife, he has created the greatest empire that time has ever seen. Uvtrali is fair, noble, and benevolent, but rules with unquestioned authority and a deeply scientific mind. Potentially the creator of both the Bonesmith and the Clockwork Puppeteer. Has definitely studied the art of creating golems, to produce the heir he never did in life, in case his will someday falters and he answers the call of the Crystal Spire.

[MaximumZero]

Currently working on finally solidifying everything into one single document. It's going pretty slowly, but it's going.

[Pencil_Art]

PTW. Sounds amazing, and keep it up.