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[Bad Horse]

I've been playing LCS for about a week now and I just can not get a cop sleeper. I've lost several top men and women to stings illustrated by those filthy cops pretending to be cops that I picked up from a police station. How were my people supposed to know they were leaking information to the cops? Sarcasm aside, I've lost about four people and three more acquitted. Most of them had about four to five seduction and at least some persuasion. All had criminal records, but it's hard to find a revolutionary that isn't wanted for something.

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Do I just need more seduction? Find someone fresh without a record?

Side-note: I mentioned Enlightenment because I haven't tried it, for fear of kidnapping a cop. I just can't see that ending well, even in this universe. Would that work better than seduction?


If anyone has the raw numbers on it, I've been looking for the actual math on seduction, dating, datenapping, and interrogation. Any way of acquiring recruits without persuasion and juice. It's been a crapshoot thus far and the more spectacular failures are piling up.

[SlatersQuest]

If they turned you in, it means that you failed a seduction check. Generally you want 8+ Seduction before you can reliably beat seduction checks against cops, or go on vacations in which 4-5 should be good, if you've got high enough charisma.

I'd suggest recruiting an actor who isn't wanted for anything (by seduction, of course!), and then have your actor seduce the cop. They will not turn your actor in if your actor has no rap sheet. If you fail the seduction check and break up, your actor can try again.

I would not try to go for enlightenment if you're having trouble with seduction. Enlightening cops is easily possible, but seducing is easier.

The code for seduction is in date.cpp. All of the calculations are there, but it's a comparison between your Seduction roll and the cop's Wisdom roll.

[Purple Gorilla]

The mechanics are in DATE.CPP line 211-212. If the lovers would break up there is a 1 in 50 chance you get arested for laymen and a 1 in 4 chance if the date is a policeman (officer, gang unit, SWAT, death squad), agent or prisonguard/educator.  What gets you arested, are the fact that you are wanted, and your bad seduction roll.

If that all happens, you have a 3/4 chace of getting arested if you have more than 50 juice and a 1/2 chance if you have less than 50 juice.

Kidnapping a Cop on date has a higher chance of him escaping or you getting arested in the process. The chance is 1 in 15 for laymen. If the date is one of the roles mentioned above, or a soldier, mercenary or vigilante, the chance depends on your weapon. If you are wielding an actual weapon (gun, knife,...) the chance is 1 in 7. If you are wielding nothing the chance is 1 in (martial arts +1). If you wield a gavel or spraycan the chace is 1 in 1.

Note, that dates don't bring their weapon, while your liberal does. The kind of weapon you bring doesn't matter, as long it is threatening. A 15000$ machinegun has the same effect than a 30$ Knife, so you should bring a knife to cut the losses if you are arested.

Seduction by unexperianced liberals is possible, so a just recruited prostitute with high seduction might perform better than a 1000 juice college student with 0 seduction.

Note that firemen don't get a bonus for aresting you, so seducing firemen is a good way to train seduction and get sleepers.

If you want to get warning of incoming police raids, a janitor at the police station is enough. It doesn't have to be a policeman, as long as the sleeper is at the police station. Other raids are more complicated : Corporate raids need a CEO slepper,CIA rais an agent sleeper, CCS raids a vigilante sleeper, firemen raids one fireman slepper for a cumulative 1 in 7 chance and rednecks never give a warning.

The chance of a sucessful seduction are higher, if bove lovers have similar skills. Every skill the date has in a 50% to 200% intervall increases your atack roll by 3.

The details are in SRC/DAILY/DATE.CPP.

[Bad Horse]

That's really helpful, actually. I hadn't even considered actors, though looking through their skills they're pretty attractive for my operation. In mildly related news, I actually got a cop sleeper just before I checked this thread. I had a lawyer with high juice keep talking to a few hippies until his persuasion was 13 and he convinced an officer to join out of the goodness of his cold, black heart. Conservatives can be convinced by mighty liberals, who knew? Probably does logically follow from the News Anchors spewing slogans until my terrorists flipped.

As to the data on kidnapping 'soldier-esque' classes, definitely worth knowing. I was about to start working on an agent sleeper and I thought kidnapping might be the best option. Those guys are eunuchs.

Also, I had no idea anyone at the location would work for the raid-awareness. I was fixed on an officer. Neat.

[Cheedows]

In my opinion, enlightenment is a much more preferable way to get conservatives than seduction. As mentioned by Purple Gorilla, bringing any form of weapon generally let's you kidnap high risk conservatives, and you prevent their chances of escaping midtrip by bringing a vehicle. After that point you either have a psychologist or a trained psychologist tend to the conservative along with a good 5-7 people. You can train up psychology very easily by starting with less skilled conservatives such as janitors and working your way up, it is MUCH quicker than grinding seduction. Psychology was 3 options, beating them with all the other liberals without psychology skill (this is where the 5-6 count), giving them drugs costing 50 dollars or using props that cost 250. Beating them reduces their wisdom stat which they use to resist your psychologist based on the relative strength and number of people beating, drugs bypass the effects of other misc skills such as religion, business and their own psychology, while props are like props in recruitment and enhance the overall success of the session. Along with all this is what costume the interrogator is wearing, giving special bonuses depending on what they are wearing.

Along with this is how much the automaton likes the interrogator.  For example, the interrogator in charge of repeated beatings over the course of several days will not be liked, but the newly introduced suave, charismatic and costumed interrogator introduced after these beatings will be liked by the conservative, going up to the level of "clings helplessly to [insert name here] as their only friend". This is very important in the enlightenment process, as generally when a liberal is hated it will be much more difficult to enlighten the conservative automaton.

Now, to the good stuff of interrogations: the information that you can attain by interrogation. Once you encounter the CCS, you will find it very annoying how they can send roving hordes of gun-toting hicks to your safehouses yet you do not know where they are laucnhing them from so you will not be able to get your retribution. This is where enlightenment comes in. Kidnapping suspected CCS members will allow you to have a chance to beat the information of the map site out of the conservative, or get them to reveal it through regular interrogation. This will prove invaluable in your struggle against the arch nemesis of the Liberal Crime Squad, as this information will allow you to raid and capture their safehouses with your liberals. The same can be done with any other conservative who will give map information depending on their profession.

 

[Purple Gorilla]

*** Recruitment
Note also, that you can recruit everybody. With the right skills, you can recruit CIA Agents, Policemen or Vigilantes like liberals. It is worth to keep some open subordinate slots on your founder to recruit high difficulty conservatives. The skills are :
* Persuation : The most important. It can be maxed out, by leaving the liberal talking to people without recruiting them. This consumes some real time, but gameplaywise it costs nothing. Persuation will increase, until it is maxed out.
* Religion : Helps for recruitment. It can be learned - and only be learned - by tlaking to people with higher religion than you. If the public opinion is liberal enough, you will find liberal or moderate priests at the fire station. Just talk to them for some time and your religion increases.
* Science : Helps like Religion does. It can be learned by talking to people with science, or by studying at the university. The best role to talk to is an Eminent Scientist. Unfortunately they are always conservative, so you have to bring good skills to talk to them at all.
* Buisiness : Helps like Religion and Science. It can easily trained - together with tayloring - by selling T-shirts before comiting crimes. Otherwise it can be trained by talking to people with buisiness or learn it at the unsiversity.
* Law : Helps like Religion, Buisiness and Science. It can be trained by talking to people with the skill (like Judges and Lawyers). Further you can study it at the university and it is trained if you stand trial.

In practical Law is the easiest to learn by recruitment sessions, as Liberal Judges are an actual monster class and are guarantied to be liberal, even in nightmare mode. Priests and nuns are normal civilians, who chance their opinion depending on the public mood (presumely because they are catholics, while the evil conservatives in the game are protestants), so you can do the same with them.

*** How to find a Vigilante
As Cheedows mentioned, it is useful to get CCS sleepers. Finding CCS Vigilantes can however be tricky, as they appear as other Roles. If you manage to shedule a recruitment session, you see the actual job of somebody. CCS Members have the job "Vigilante" instead of the job, they appeared to be (the same goes for professional thiefs, who are disguised as critics). There are also some other professions that change name, like "Guard Dog" becoming "Canine Hero", but they have nothing to do with the CCS.
* Hick, Redneck, Rube, Yokel and Country Boy (and Hillbilly in the beta version) are often Vigilantes. Note however, that the official name of the monster for Hick, Rube,... is "Redneck", so a recruited Hick might turn out to be Redneck -This is not the same as a Vigilante.
* A Mailman is always a Vigilante, while a Mailcarrier is an actual postal worker. This is in fact the easiest way to find a Vigilante, but it seems to be a bug, so you might want to voluntary not do this. A Car Salesman however is just a Car Salesperson if Women Rights are at C+, and never a Vigilante.
* Mercenaries (called Elite Security) may be Vigilantes. An actual Mercenary always offers the option "D - Buy Weapons" if you talk to him, while a Vigilante doesn't. If you talk to an Elite Securty, and this options doesn't show up he is a Vigilante. (True Mercenaries might not actually sell you a gun if you wear police body armour or are at a wrong location, but the option still exists)

[SlatersQuest]

I will add to that, on finding vigilantes:

Hicks (country boys, hicks, etc.) are always male. Vigilantes, however, can still disguise themselves as hicks, but can be female. Therefore, if you ever encounter a female character who shows up as a hick, then you know her to be a vigilante.

[Broseph Stalin]

One technique to reliably flip people is to get a former arch conservtive on your side (still hard to enlighten but since they're not sleepers it doesn't really matter if they're declared missing). If there are multiple conservatives in the area use seduction to get them to leave until it's just your recruiter (armed with a guitar to avoid any accidents) and your former arch conservative. The juice/wisdom draining attack will turn them uber liberal and make them simple to bring to your side through recruitment or seduction. You could also stage a big ol' hippy jam band but I find one smooth talker can reliably stunlock someone where even a very skilled jam band might get somebody killed.

[Bad Horse]

In related news, I've recently had success with a new playthrough. Only one true liberal, and a veritable armada of enlightened. It's really disturbing how effective six guys in elephant suits can be. Sixty six sleepers in just a year, almost as many active agents writing seditious materials. Not being able to persuade is more crippling than expected, but getting gun laws to elite liberal does mean you can take anyone you want by showing off the pistol you hid in your elephant mask.

One thing that surprises me, though, is that my kidnapping squad is wanted for literally nothing. It makes sense given the way things have turned out, but six guys in elephant suits walk into the park, escort a seventh guy out at gunpoint, and no one cares. Over a hundred occurrences, too. All that's left is to set up the huge seduction ring from the top down and laugh at the pick-up lines all the way to the CEOs office.