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Author Topic: Career Specialization: how early should we start?  (Read 2213 times)

Reelya

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 03:44:29 am »

Computer programming is definitely one of those things you need almost decade of exposure to before college. If only because of what alway said: you will be competing with people who have been doing that for that length of time. I know a guy, 20 years old, no good at maths, never programmed before, considering going to college to be a programmer. I didn't want to burst his bubble, but he's going to suck at it. He's they party/bro type, into tech gadgets etc. He doesn't have the single-minded nature to learn to program.

That reminds me of a guy I read about, who funds Silicon Valley startups. Some feminists put him on the spot as to why he didn't fund more women-led startups. He made the point that very few women were coming forward with competitive proposals, and he put the blame on teen culture: for 13 year old girls programming just isn't cool. There are many more 13 year old boys who get into programming, and by the time they arrive at his door asking for funding, they've got almost 10 years head start on someone who only decided what they want to do at college. He said the solution isn't on his end: it's to get girls into programming at the start of the pipeline: e.g work out how to get them interested in programming when they're ~13 years old.

This last comment outraged one feminist blogger I read, they said someone should not have to be a "precocious programmer" to get their foot in the door with the tech world. Sure, maybe they shouldn't "have" to program for 10 years before getting funding to start your own company, but complaining about it is like saying you "shouldn't have to" train 10 hours a day for 6 years to be in the olympics. Maybe you shouldn't have to, but someone else is doing just that, and it's a competitive world.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 03:48:34 am by Reelya »
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Lagslayer

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2015, 09:19:38 am »

Ask an "in general" question, get an "in general" answer:
I replying to TheDarkStar's implication that this was going to be used as personal advice.

martinuzz

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 10:00:09 am »

I think global society suffers from over-specialization.

From a pragmatic point of view, I do believe that a person's motives and drives, as well as the societal demand for specialist niche jobs are subject to change over the course of their lives, and pinning yourself down on one specialization would be like an agrarian nation relying on monoculture. Very risky behaviour.

From a philosophical point of view, I think the Enlightenment era's ideal of the Uomo Universalis, Italian for 'the universal man' (of which the best example would be Leonardi da Vinci) is of more benefit to a dynamic society than a narrow field specialist ignorant to the knowledge outside of their ivory tower's scope.
IMO the topic's title should be "How early should we start to broaden the scope of our skills and knowledge?". Then my answer would be: At the first signs of curiosity.

Chomsky has some relevant quotes on it too:
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pisskop

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 10:02:42 am »

By high school, you should have a decent idea of what field you want/will enter.  Every time I hear about somebody who decided that 'General Studies' is the right major to take, I cry inside.  Its not always a bad thing, but often enough it is.
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Rolan7

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2015, 09:45:55 pm »

Upon completion of high school, probably.
IF you enter 4-year college, you literally buy some time to decide.  But I'd recommend going to a technical school skills first.  Primarily because technical (IE, applied) skills are useful and undervalued.  And after a 2-year associates degree you have *something*, but have also completed many of the prerequisites for a "proper" 4-year (theoretical) degree if you so choose.
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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2015, 10:02:00 pm »

I'd say mid university for those who are planning on going on to the higher degree levels (like scientists, engineers, etc.) and mid high school for those who are planning on going into trade stuff.

I mean sure, ideally you won't decide until your early-mid twenties, but it's pretty apparent that some people are just not going to exactly go out and become scientists or engineers usually by mid high school, at which point offering them the ability to get into a trade school earlier can help them accrue the experience they need for what they are going to be doing sooner.
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acetech09

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2015, 02:10:10 am »

The earlier they start, the better they'll be what they do.

As I see it, a 4-year degree for most fields is simply an expensive stopgap. 2 years is plenty of education for very well-paying jobs.



A friend was complaining that he 'needs a 4-year degree' to even compete for a local job. That's because the only two local hirers are huge corporate parks with hardline minimum degree requirements. I encouraged him to really rethink what he wants to accomplish in life, and how to get there.

He dropped out of school two years in, bit the bullet, and moved near me to the San Francisco startup scene, where a degree often is only worth its weight in sewage. And, as of now, he's absolutely killing it as a server tech for an exploding software services company. However, he couldn't possibly be where he's at now if he wasn't constantly hosting and building pretty impressive game and web servers since elementary school.

I could also give my own personal story, but I feel like I've recounted that quite enough.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2015, 02:36:53 am »

Taking the question a different way; as early as possible. If a child enjoys something, chances are that's what/where they want to be; if they enjoy doing something, that is what they truly want to be when they grow up. Hope for the best that when they reach adulthood, their dreams remain intact, or at least, their drive for it, and they decide to continue for themselves. How I see it, "Find a job that you love, never work a day of your life." --Confucius   comes to play. Got a passion for something, work on/towards it as early as possible, and most importantly, enjoy it, even the stressful parts that contribute to it. If you enjoy doing something, you do far better at it than you'd ever expect of yourself.

Learning something doesn't take too long; mastering it does. Mastering your passion for it, even moreso. A good example: I was a bit of an artist, and a little bit inventor in my childhood, and got fairly good at it as I grew up; I also liked playing alot of games. Nowadays, though I'm not making games as was once a previous goal (didn't enjoy all the math and programming involved; I knew it was required, but I couldn't enjoy it, or retain it all), I can still work on/with one from a different angle; a fall-back which is still relevant that I enjoyed (I'll admit, I was a fan of game graphics and quality, and the inventiveness, and overall creativity of some designs (some games and such had really good art direction)). Graphic Design. I've had a fair amount of projects where I actually enjoyed my job. Payment has yet to turn a major profit at the moment (having recently started my freelancing), but I enjoy it when I get it.

Relative to past incomes, and future incomes, I'd rather make a pittance doing what I love (within reason), rather than make a fortune being miserable (that includes sacrificing my dignity for a bunch of money, like million-dollar bets, reality TV, and the like).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 02:56:59 am by Itnetlolor »
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dennislp3

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2015, 05:47:07 pm »

I think that people should take personality tests midway through high school to determine a category of jobs that seem most suitable and spend time exploring those options BEFORE being spit out of the system and being told to drop tons of money on college or simply being told to go find a job.

In the US at least, the system fails to prepare most people for the real world and most people spend years 18-24 or so doing one of the following:

Being completely lost and doing shit jobs with no career opportunities or interest for them
Being completely lost but being pressured or forced into college without a proper career idea or focus
Having an idea what they want to do and either pursuing work or school in that field only to find they don't like it
Being a minority that knows what they want and getting proper schooling or work related to that field

There are many factors that lead to any of the above scenarios and I think parents have the biggest responsibility (and failing) to make the most successful options available to their children but schools (from my experience) completely fail too. Doesn't help that most for profit colleges go out to try and do sales pitch crap to get people to go to their schools irregardless of career interests or financial situations.

I am 25 and 90% of the people I went to school with are barely scrapping their lives together and actually getting into a career; myself included.

I have personally busted my ass and known what I want for a very long time but I never had the money for college and never had the family support I needed to even work up to that. I have also not had the opportunities to get into the career I want because I have spent the last 7 years of my life living on my own, moving around, and just trying to pay the bills and survive. I have been working since i was 15.

sadly despite this...all I can call the last 10 years of my life is nothing short of a "waste". I have learned many lessons and I have large amounts of work experience in various fields...but I am no where closer to my goals.

One could simply state the fault is all my own but I know for a fact that I spent the last 2 or 3 years in school being bored and sleeping through class and still achieving top grades with no opportunities for growth or advanced classes as my school had no AP classes. That is time I could have spent learning skills necessary to my preferred profession. I did in fact learn many skills on my own...but that translates poorly in the work world when there is very little verifiable work experience or training.

No system should result in a majority of individuals falling into a pattern of 2+ years of wasted potential after schooling because it has a very noticeable long term effect.
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SquatchHammer

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2015, 10:16:07 pm »

The best way I would think of choosing a career is to find what you love to do in a world without money. What is the one thing you be doing from dawn to dusk not caring what happens because you love it so much. Then go from there and try to see if you can find a career path of what you love to do.

Personally, I love making things; preferably machinery. My trade is machining and I still feel like I'm not exactly where I love to be exactly but I feel like I am on the right path. I did go through a bit of college to learn the skills necessary in machining, but I was not exactly ready to do it in the field.

That's where I really turn to is the lack of master student style of training. Almost any field would greatly improve in quality of personal working with a better introduction in working in that field. Also, it will match the student with their strengths in the field they will exceed at better than most of the current systems.
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acetech09

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Re: Career Specialization: how early should we start?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2015, 11:40:26 pm »

Ah, cool. A fellow machinist. You know what's up.



The best way I would think of choosing a career is to find what you love to do in a world without money. What is the one thing you be doing from dawn to dusk not caring what happens because you love it so much. Then go from there and try to see if you can find a career path of what you love to do.

Big distinction between doing what you love and bringing your love into what you do. If you want your life to be not hard, not starve, but still pursue your History major, don't take a History major. Take a History minor, and work toward a career in materials engineering, and go to work for a knife company, where you refine thousand-year-old traditions with modern alloys and technology.

Also, Hi, fellow machinist!
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