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[GoblinCookie]

At the moment some items (certain items of clothing) scales while other items do not.  I think that Toady One should change it so all items should scale up and down properly according to the size of the creature for which it was made.

This would involve changing all numeric values of the items from the present values to ones that are based upon %, that is percentage of the size of the creature for whom it was made.  So for instance a two-handed sword in the raws instead of having it's two-handed value set higher than the size of any of the default creatures, instead could a 150% value which means that a creature 50% larger than the creature for which it was made. 

The items are by caste.  So instead of having the present system of large clothing so we would have human (male) clothing and human (female) clothing which dwarves cannot wear because of the % values within the base item.  Rather than having a list, we should have a slider so that in every context we can quickly distinguish between all versions of the item and specific versions. 

We make items of a particular caste or we make default items, which is items for the same caste and race as the maker.  There would be a preference of creatures AIs for items of the same caste as they are; however the player can deliberately create items for larger or smaller creatures.  In some contexts, such as traps it would often be optimal to create the components for the race you are likely to be fighting, larger components are easier to dodge while smaller components do less damage.

The most difficult part would presumably be units.  Probably what we need is to establish absolute units based upon the mean size of all the castes of the race of the entity you are playing and create units based upon the size of the creature that produces the units and translate the other units into fractions.  The same applies to the units of other civilizations, they appear as a fractional amount, so there is 6.5 units of whatever. 

[vjmdhzgr]

I don't like having different clothing based on castes. It's kind of ridiculous to say that women can't wear the same clothes as men and vice versa. It would also ruin any caste systems in mods by making it so standard dwarves, carpenter's guild dwarves, and mason's guild dwarves all need different types of clothes. That weapon thing seems like an alright idea though, until you realize that when you scale the base weapons to large creatures they get incredibly heavy and impossible to use because size doesn't actually bring any carry weight bonuses. It would be nice to be able to make armor for different creature sizes so when human mercenaries become a thing you can give them decent armor rather then just base quality random material breastplate and helm.

[GoblinCookie]

I don't like having different clothing based on castes. It's kind of ridiculous to say that women can't wear the same clothes as men and vice versa. It would also ruin any caste systems in mods by making it so standard dwarves, carpenter's guild dwarves, and mason's guild dwarves all need different types of clothes. That weapon thing seems like an alright idea though, until you realize that when you scale the base weapons to large creatures they get incredibly heavy and impossible to use because size doesn't actually bring any carry weight bonuses. It would be nice to be able to make armor for different creature sizes so when human mercenaries become a thing you can give them decent armor rather then just base quality random material breastplate and helm.

Having different clothing for males and females, while realistic is actually not an intentional feature but rather a programming necessity created by the fact that you can have creatures of the same race but with different castes of different sizes.

The simplest (and thus more efficient) program is to automatically create items for all castes rather than having to check whether all the items that the civilization has require there to be different version of each items.  Given that there can potentially be modded in thousands of items, you can see why we do not want the program

Your citizens will use any items that are available to them as long as it is not too big or too small for them personally to wear.  Male dwarves will not complain if they are wearing female dwarf clothing any more than they will complain if they have to wear male goblin clothing.  All that is the case is that if all kinds of clothing are available they will choose to wear the clothing for their caste; this is a gameplay necessity for multi-racial settlements created partly by the different material costs of different castes item.

[IndigoFenix]

Right now, the game stores clothing size based on the race that made it.  That is, clothing has a maker race (goblin, for instance) and to check if a creature can wear it, it compares their 'race size' to the maker's race size.  This doesn't make a whole lot of sense from either a logical or programming standpoint and is probably an artifact of a much earlier, pre-caste version of the game.

The most sensible thing would just be to give each individual clothing item a size and determine if a creature could wear it based on how big they are.  There would have to be some leeway, of course, since individual members of a race can vary in size, and not all clothes should need to be custom fit to be wearable.

There are a number of new systems that would have to be created for this to work right, though.  We couldn't simply designate clothes to be made, there would need to be some way of determining who it was being made for, especially when using molded races with castes of different sizes.  Growing children would need new clothes regularly. 

I expect this is one of the things that will need to be worked out for multi-race fortresses.

[Deboche]

If this gets implemented, we NEED an automatic clothing replenishing system. Maybe dwarves can place orders for new clothes with the manager when they get x____x or maybe when economy gets implemented they can buy their own damn clothes in markets or something.

[vjmdhzgr]

I just really don't like the additional level of management that would be added by needing to make different clothes for different dwarves. Sure a huge dwarf and a small dwarf can't wear the same clothes without the small dwarf's hands and feet being covered up and difficult to use, but I think the realism isn't worth the significant annyance it will cause.

[GoblinCookie]

Right now, the game stores clothing size based on the race that made it.  That is, clothing has a maker race (goblin, for instance) and to check if a creature can wear it, it compares their 'race size' to the maker's race size.  This doesn't make a whole lot of sense from either a logical or programming standpoint and is probably an artifact of a much earlier, pre-caste version of the game.

The most sensible thing would just be to give each individual clothing item a size and determine if a creature could wear it based on how big they are.  There would have to be some leeway, of course, since individual members of a race can vary in size, and not all clothes should need to be custom fit to be wearable. 

There are a number of new systems that would have to be created for this to work right, though.  We couldn't simply designate clothes to be made, there would need to be some way of determining who it was being made for, especially when using molded races with castes of different sizes.  Growing children would need new clothes regularly. 

I expect this is one of the things that will need to be worked out for multi-race fortresses.

The idea was to have items by default made for the caste of the being making the items and then have a slider that allows the player to assign the item to any other caste of creatures able to equip items.  Mechanically the items however have a size and that determines if they can be worn by castes other than the one for which they were made.  Things like gender are normally therefore just cosmetic since both genders will be able to use both sets of clothing since they are the same size.

Ideally there would be a search function on the slider (ideally everything would have a search function!). 

Children's clothes were always the achilles heel of my idea.  The only way I can think of sorting it out would be to have the slider initially assign to an adult but also be able to assign it to a child of a particular year.  Producing a large amount of kiddies clothing would not be a problem initially because one unit of cloth could make many units of toddler's clothing and babies are initially happy to go around naked.  Every year you would have to make new clothing for the next year, until we have 12 seperate piles of clothing constantly being cast off and reused by the next generation of children.

If this gets implemented, we NEED an automatic clothing replenishing system. Maybe dwarves can place orders for new clothes with the manager when they get x____x or maybe when economy gets implemented they can buy their own damn clothes in markets or something.

Why stop at clothing, why not give an option to automate production in general? 

Recycling is also a good idea, we would be able to recycle (non-metal) items down into their componants and reassemble the componants into new items (with a certain level of wastage dependant upon skill).  That way too large items aquired say from invaders can be turned into possibly many smaller items.

[Deboche]

Why stop at clothing, why not give an option to automate production in general? 

Recycling is also a good idea, we would be able to recycle (non-metal) items down into their componants and reassemble the componants into new items (with a certain level of wastage dependant upon skill).  That way too large items aquired say from invaders can be turned into possibly many smaller items.

Yes, this has been suggested before and I think some setting where you can tell your dwarves to auto-collect clay and sand when it reaches a certain number, auto-make ash and charcoal to always keep it at a certain amount, auto turn rock nuts into soap if you have a lot of them and so on would go a long way.

Old clothes can be made into rags for the hospital, old wooden items can be burned and in the stocks screen, it'd be great to have a tab with all the metal items regardless of what they are to make it easier to decide which ones to melt.