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Author Topic: Dwarven Primogeniture  (Read 2060 times)

Thomas Winwood

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Dwarven Primogeniture
« on: December 10, 2014, 11:38:42 am »

I wondered whether dwarves used male-preference primogeniture, absolute primogeniture or something else, so I loaded up the world I've just generated (you can find the worldgen stuff in the cookbook thread) and took a look at the civilisation I'm planning on allying myself with, Ùshrir Ebal.

The first king was Edzul Ilralevost, who had nineteen children, nine of whom survived him. I was surprised to note that the crown passed neither to his eldest surviving son, his sixth eldest son Medtob Nercog nor to his eldest surviving offspring, his third eldest daughter Zasit Ducimzefon. Instead it passed to his eighth eldest daughter Dumed Kelrithlut, his fifth eldest surviving offspring and fourth eldest daughter.

It gets weirder: Dumed Kelrithlut dies without issue (she didn't even marry) so when she dies in 206 the crown passes to... Moldath Kosothegast, who has no ties whatsoever to the royal lineage and isn't even a noble - his wife became baroness of Azothalåth after he died.

As of 250 the crown is held by Tobul Lòrumstiz, Moldath's second eldest son; he inherited it on Moldath's death in 247, over the head of his older brother Mûthkat Kälánatír (who died in 249 with no surviving heirs). From this I conclude dwarven primogeniture is "one of the monarch's surviving offspring is chosen at random; if the monarch died without issue, the crown passes to another dwarf at random".

I'd still like a more deterministic algorithm, preferably one which takes immortal creatures into consideration. What interesting things have happened in the royal families of your world?
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U+203C DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK (‼) is the Dwarf Fortress symbol for fire, not two instances of U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK (!!).

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Dwarven Primogeniture
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2014, 12:08:08 pm »

Not all successions are by primogeniture. Many middle eastern and African kingdoms used an open succession where any male heir could inherit, sometimes by killing or imprisoning all the others, or, in the case of Ethiopia, by being first back to the palace after the previous emperor's death. Dwarves likely use some form of open or nominative succession like this. Their lack of sexism means that it is gender neutral.

My dwarven kingdom had a goblin cheese maker queen once. Unfortunately my 200-dwarf fortress died to a tantrum spiral before we could receive her.
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Zac

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Re: Dwarven Primogeniture
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2014, 05:50:03 pm »

I had a succession happen in my fort, the king was very old and passed away a few years after his arrival. His heir was his third son.
I like to think my kings are elected amongst the possible heirs to the throne by a council of my three dukes, the mayor and the militia commander.
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Dwarven Primogeniture
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2014, 06:03:48 pm »

I had a king who was about 120 years old when I started my fortress. (This was before the most recent update) My fort lasted about 10 years when the monarch came. He died the second he appeared on the map. I guess his age finally caught up to him :).
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Magistrum

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Re: Dwarven Primogeniture
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2014, 06:40:58 pm »

Weird, dwarves can live up to 170 years... Well, maybe he dug a few too many coal mines...
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Matoro

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Re: Dwarven Primogeniture
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 07:59:58 am »

How about elective monarchy? Basically there would be a counclic of important dwarves (like general and counts) who decide who will be elected as a king?
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TheSoundOfTrees

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Re: Dwarven Primogeniture
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 08:15:12 am »

I only had two "inheritances" in game (recent player here), but in both cases, the eldest children inherited : the eldest son of the queen (a guard in my fortress) and the eldest daughter of the baron of another fortress (she was a fishworker in my fortress, and so I had TWO barons to take care of).
From what I've seen browsing legend mode, there are many reasons that could explain weird successions : it is not rare for a family to have members snatched away, turned in night trolls or necromancers, or prisonner of some other civilization. For instance, the eldest son of the guard-turned-king above had become a night troll's consort long before he joined the fortress, and his eldest daughter turned nercomancer.
It's possible that the "jump" in succession order/ new line you observed was because none of the living heirs were "available/acceptable".
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