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Author Topic: Why Don't We Have A Heroes of the Storm Thread Yet?  (Read 1629 times)

ZebAbirul

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Why Don't We Have A Heroes of the Storm Thread Yet?
« on: November 21, 2014, 09:16:00 pm »

With Technical Alpha coming to an end soon, and closed Beta starting on January 13th, I was wondering if I could necro someone else's thread. Alas no such thread exists, so let me make a debut there for.....



HEROES OF THE STORM
A game published and developed by Blizzard Entertainment. A small indie company that has existed for only 23 years and made only a few noteworthy games (Diablo, the Warcraft series, Starcraft, Lost Vikings and a few more).

This MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) has deviated from the typical formula of other MoBAs by getting rid of the item system of other popular games in the genre(League of Legends, Defense of the Ancient 2, Heroes of Newearth) and also the individual leveling system, in favor of a more streamlined approach. By doing away with items HotS lowers the skill cap of entry into the game substantially; where as by getting rid of individual levels for a more streamlined team leveling system the team must work as such or find themselves left behind by the opposing team. With that being said lets get into the nitty gritty!

THE OBJECTIVE SYSTEM
Another huge difference between HotS and other MOBA is that the game has many different maps. Some have the standard three lanes while others have two. On top of this each map has a different objective. The maps, as well as a brief summery are as follows.

BLACKHEART'S BAY
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wherein each team must gather coins from a variety of sources, including treasure chests and undead pirates, and bring them to the humble Captain Blackheart in exchange for the use of his ship's cannon to wreak havoc on the opposing team. Coin carriers can be killed to make them drop coins so there is some danger in carrying too many.

DRAGON SHRINE
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The top and bottom lanes both have an optional objective in the form of a shrine, a moon shrine and a sun shrine, and if one team captures both of those shrines than their power can be used to release the dragon knight at the larger dragon shrine in th middle lane. Once the dragon is awakened it can do massive damage to the opposing team, but watch out as when either the timer runs out or the dragon knight dies ythe heroe controlling it is left behind with the same amount of health as he or she had upon waking him up!

HAUNTED MINES
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The objective of this map is to enter the underground mines, which is a secondary map held underneath the main map, and kill the skeletons for their skulls which you use to power a large Grave Golem. each time attempts to get more skulls that the other and the differing amount of skulls results in a better, or worse, golem. The golem is not controlled by any player and will ignore all minions, as well as stay in he location with which it died.

CURSED HOLLOW
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
During the game a tribute in the form of a raven's skull will appear on the map, both teams will attempt to release the tribute and when a team gets 3 tributes the other team is cursed by the Raven Lord.

"But wait, Zeb," you may be telling me, "What is a spooky ghost going to do to my bad ass team of super characters, I mean one of us is literally a tank!"

Let me tell you that that curse wins games. While cursed minions have 1 hp and towers and forts do not shoot. That means that if even one of your team mates doesn't fulfill his or her roll than you lane is going to get destroyed! I am not usually one to pick favorites, but if I had to this would be it.

GARDEN OF TERROR
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As the newest map it still has some rough edges to work out, but it goes a little something like this. at night time the area in between lanes, what other MOBAs would call the jungle, is over run by plant men. the objective is to kill those plant men and collect the seeds that fall off of them. If your team collects 100 seeds it gets the ability to grow a Garden Terror, which is a player controlled juggernaut very similar to the Dragon Knight. Much like the Dragon Knight, you will want to avoid minions and do as much damage as you can to the enemy fortifications.

THE CHARACTERS
Or Heroes or Champions or whatever you want to call them, are split into four categories: Warrior, Support, Assassin, Specialist. These take on different roles and almost every character can go into at least two of these categories. I could list each character but I am lazy so you get my current favorite Chen, for more heroes you can find them easily at
Other than objective based maps and team based leveling there is one more major difference between this MOBA and every other major contender. There are no items. Yes I know I already mentioned this but now i am going to go into greater detail by outlining my favorite character and what makes his talents and abilities so different.

CHEN STORMSTOUT
Legendary Brewmaster, pretty terrible uncle and all around decent large sentient pandaman.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

His abiblities are as follows:
D- Fortifying Brew: Instead of mana Chen has Brew and he has a starting cap of 100 brew. Fortifying brew is the only way to gain more brew and, while drinking, Chen receives a shield for the duration.

Q- Flying Kick: Chen kicks through the air to his target ignoring terrain and other characters as well as structures. He will always land on the other side of his target

W- Keg Smash: Chen throws a keg of his brew at the ground creating an AoE(Area of Effect) burst of tasty booze and slowing all targets effected by the ability. It also drenches the tagets.

E- Breath of Fire: Chen breathes fire in a cone in front of him, dealing damage to all that he hits as well as setting all booze-soaked enemies on fire.

as with all characters he has two Heroic abilities (Ultimates in any other MOBA)

Wandering Keg: Chen jumps into his barrel and pushes any enemy hit by him to be knocked back

Storm, Earth, Fire: Chen splits into three elemental spirits each with its own special ability. Storm is ranged, Earth slows targets hit, and Fire attacks very quickly at melee range.

And now onto the fun bit, every few levels (1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 20) you will chose between 2 and 5 talents which can upgrade your abilities or give you all new ones.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

THE END
That is my not-so-breif description of Heroes of the Storm, if there are any questions I can answer them to the best of my abilities. Happy hunting and if you do have access to this wonderful game hit me up on here and we can play a game.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Why Don't We Have A Heroes of the Storm Thread Yet?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 09:18:14 pm »

Because I haven't gotten into the god damn alpha >:o
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itisnotlogical

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Re: Why Don't We Have A Heroes of the Storm Thread Yet?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2014, 09:29:35 pm »

The heroes aren't really grabbing me like League or DOTA heroes. Besides the ones that actually existed in Blizzard canon before this, most of them are either units in Warcraft III, units from Starcraft or generic mobs from World of Warcraft. Also I can tell up top that at least a handful of them have their gimmicks lifted directly from League characters.

Quote
where as by getting rid of individual levels for a more streamlined team leveling system the team must work as such or find themselves left behind by the opposing team.

Except teamwork is already a big part of MOBAs? Communication is one of the things that can make or break a team in any MOBA that I've played, it'd be hard to make it any more important than it already is. Individual levels mean that individual skill is an important deciding factor as well, meaning that the team might not be crippled if one person goes AFK or disconnects, as long as one team member is good enough to play for two people (rare but it happens).
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ZebAbirul

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Re: Why Don't We Have A Heroes of the Storm Thread Yet?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 09:59:39 pm »

I could give the excuse that the heroes in LoL or DotA 2 are are based on characters from DotA 1 and therefore based on characters from Warcraft 3 but I feel that isn't necessary, as if the heroes are not appealing to you than no amount of excuses is going to change your mind.

That being said I feel that the team experience vs independent experience changes the way a team works at the core. Having started my MOBA gaming with early League of Legends and then progressing to DotA 2 I find that that the team exp makes the game much faster. Effectively killing too major problems with one stone. The team's last hits and cs are added to a larger pool there is no angry ADC telling everyone whey they are terrible, and because there is no money at all to lose by dying the overly defensive play of DotA 2 is taken care of. Although it is fun to see players from both games try to wrap their heads around the game.

The point I am trying to make is that this game is not LoL or DotA or HoN but something much faster and more casual.
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Darkmere

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Re: Why Don't We Have A Heroes of the Storm Thread Yet?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2014, 12:32:38 am »

I got an alpha invite and utterly despise and revile everything moba! I'd give it away.... but I can't!
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Rez

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Re: Why Don't We Have A Heroes of the Storm Thread Yet?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2014, 02:42:21 am »

last hits and cs are added to a larger pool there is no angry ADC telling everyone whey they are terrible

It's probably worse if things are pooled, because the Burning wannabe is going to flame even harder at his team for not farming as well as him.  He won't be wrong either (just an asshole).  A bad team will be a bigger death sentence if you're the 'carry' and you're behind on levels because your teammates can't stay in lane.

I'll probably give it a shot sometime, but I don't have much faith in anything catering to casual gamers having the gameplay and balance complexity I'm looking for.  There's no way around powergamers creating dominant strategies and trying to balance such that they can't drive meta makes me think you'll end up with a game where skill doesn't matter enough, if that makes sense. 

Basically, dota tries to walk the line of crazy shit balancing crazy shit, because the balance is focused on very skilled players (rat doto is a great example; TI3 was won on TP's and a crucial stun from Alliance).   The best play balancing the best play, to some extent, though we know IF doesn't get that right all the time.  In any case, players generally strive toward high level skill, so balancing toward that isn't so bad for the public.

If you're balancing around below average levels of play, things have to be totally different.  HP pools need to be larger and CC shorter/less common to allow slower reactions.  Heroes can't be one trick ponies and be viable, because they would face-roll your casual player who didn't care to counter it.  Level advantage needs to be small or very hard to attain, so a good farming team doesn't just roll the other team at 15 minutes and 6 more levels.  Items aren't just a source of complexity, they're an avenue for balancing heroes that doesn't involve changing them to suck outright.  My concern is that the uniqueness of heroes and the value of good play are diminished if the game is designed to be stable and relaxing for 'casuls'.

If the state of strategies and player ability in the game is highly stable, you could assign handicaps and balance play that way, maybe.  I could probably play against SingSing and win regularly if I had 15% more gold from last hits. :D


As a small digression, I'm trying not to judge Blizz for being Blizz, but every time they try to do a moba, I can't help thinking "you had your chance and you wanted to do WoW".  In retrospect, their passivity regarding dota custom games warcraft 4 or sc2 feels like a smack in the face and disrespect for a large, creative modding community.


Ed: Obviously I'm not bagging on Blizzard too much: I'm assuming they care about the gaming experience of their target market.  They could just say screw it and not pay any attention to the game's balance.  Many devs has done so in the past.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 02:44:25 am by Rez »
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