Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Quick question about DF releases  (Read 1912 times)

TurboSlug22

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Quick question about DF releases
« on: August 19, 2014, 08:41:32 pm »

Hi guys,

So I assume because its not happening that there's a valid reason but I was wondering whats holding back the latest builds of DF from being released daily via torrent?

I mean, I don't want to suggest any dissatisfaction with the massive number of bugfixes that cool awesome people have been working daily to fix... but those devblogs are really a tease early in the week. Am I right?... All the worst bugs seem to be squished on Monday and Tuesday lately lol

Serious question...
Logged

MrWiggles

  • Bay Watcher
  • Doubt Everything
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 08:43:47 pm »

ToadyOne to my knowledge hasn't commented on why he doesn't do Nightly builds.

Probably because they don't want to, or feel that its not woth the time to do it.
Logged
Doesn't like running from bears = clearly isn't an Eastern European
I'm Making a Mush! Navitas: City Limits ~ Inspired by Dresden Files and SCP.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113699.msg3470055#msg3470055
http://www.tf2items.com/id/MisterWigggles666#

Zanzetkuken The Great

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Wizard Dragon
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 08:46:29 pm »

ToadyOne to my knowledge hasn't commented on why he doesn't do Nightly builds.

Probably because they don't want to, or feel that its not woth the time to do it.

Probably he only wants to show the version editions and the bugfixes when he feels they are ready, since the game would have bugs that wouldn't the the fun kind, but the fun-killing kind.
Logged
Quote from: Eric Blank
It's Zanzetkuken The Great. He's a goddamn wizard-dragon. He will make it so, and it will forever be.
Quote from: 2016 Election IRC
<DozebomLolumzalis> you filthy god-damn ninja wizard dragon

TurboSlug22

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 08:48:24 pm »

ToadyOne to my knowledge hasn't commented on why he doesn't do Nightly builds.

Probably because they don't want to, or feel that its not woth the time to do it.

Probably he only wants to show the version editions and the bugfixes when he feels they are ready, since the game would have bugs that wouldn't the the fun kind, but the fun-killing kind.

So not an official release but a nightly public beta? :3

EDIT: Ok not beta but you know what I mean, like nightly public development/test release
Logged

MrWiggles

  • Bay Watcher
  • Doubt Everything
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 08:55:28 pm »

How is that different from what you asked intially?
Logged
Doesn't like running from bears = clearly isn't an Eastern European
I'm Making a Mush! Navitas: City Limits ~ Inspired by Dresden Files and SCP.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113699.msg3470055#msg3470055
http://www.tf2items.com/id/MisterWigggles666#

TurboSlug22

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 08:59:46 pm »

Ah sorry : (

I was just responding to the other guy's suggestion of why it might not be possible by suggesting that if the nightly build was presented as a test release and not an official release that game breaking things could be forgiven because we accepted that risk when trying out the nightly build...

I'm just trying to understand that's all : \

Logged

palu

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 09:14:52 pm »

public beta? :3
DF itself is an alpha.
Logged
Hmph, palu showing off that reading-the-instructions superpower.
The internet encourages thoughtful, intelligent discussion and if you disagree I hate you.

Orange Wizard

  • Bay Watcher
  • mou ii yo
    • View Profile
    • S M U G
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 09:24:23 pm »

If I recall correctly Toady doesn't actually do version control. Properly, at least. I'm also fairly sure he has said in the past that he doesn't like releasing things until he's happy with it.
Logged
Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

Miuramir

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 09:53:16 pm »

So I assume because its not happening that there's a valid reason but I was wondering whats holding back the latest builds of DF from being released daily via torrent?

I mean, I don't want to suggest any dissatisfaction with the massive number of bugfixes that cool awesome people have been working daily to fix...

Your post seems to imply some unfamiliarity behind the way DF happens.  The "studio" is precisely two guys, only one of whom is technical; Toady One does all the code, all the design docs, all the systems engineering, all the bugfixing, all the internal IT work, all the building, and so on; he's also responsible for a good fraction of the creative work, which is partly shared with his brother along with things like doing the financial statements and the donor rewards.  Most of their IT infrastructure is in their apartment. 

Until quite recently, it wasn't unusual for the game to go months, and in some cases years, between releases; much of the intervening time the code was "up on blocks" and not compilable due to major rewrites of underlying structure.  The build process took about a full day, during which coding, bugfixing, etc. wasn't happening.  Our understanding is that recent improvements have gotten the build process down to "a few hours", but that's still time not spent fixing bugs or writing new features.  With the exception of rare "hotfix" releases like 0.40.08 to 0.40.09, weekly seems to be a reasonable tempo; much more often, and he's wasting more time building than makes sense. 

Now, in an ideal fantasy world, having an automated build farm and modern version control that did all that at the push of a couple of easy command lines, and did so away from the computer you're working on (and outside of the un-airconditioned apartment you're trying to sleep in), might result in updates more often *some* of the time.  But that takes a considerable amount of time to set up and even more to learn; and non-negligible resources to keep running. 

I'll also point out again that this is an *early* alpha, well under half feature complete.  On a normally paced game studio, we'd probably be at least a year out before the first horribly bug-ridden NDA-required closed betas.  The fact that the game is playable at all is *astounding*; most software wouldn't even run at this early a stage, let alone do anything useful, let alone fun.  And remember most studios have one to two orders of magnitude more people, each of which is probably individually making more than the entire DF "studio", not counting perks like coffee or health insurance. 
Logged

TurboSlug22

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 10:05:06 pm »

Until quite recently, it wasn't unusual for the game to go months, and in some cases years, between releases; much of the intervening time the code was "up on blocks" and not compilable due to major rewrites of underlying structure.  The build process took about a full day, during which coding, bugfixing, etc. wasn't happening.  Our understanding is that recent improvements have gotten the build process down to "a few hours", but that's still time not spent fixing bugs or writing new features.  With the exception of rare "hotfix" releases like 0.40.08 to 0.40.09, weekly seems to be a reasonable tempo; much more often, and he's wasting more time building than makes sense. 

Sorry I wasn't aware that there was significant time required for compiling.. This thread has all the wrong energy I'm genuinely sorry I was just trying to understand but this explains it.. Thank you

Logged

MrWiggles

  • Bay Watcher
  • Doubt Everything
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2014, 05:07:47 am »

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.
Logged
Doesn't like running from bears = clearly isn't an Eastern European
I'm Making a Mush! Navitas: City Limits ~ Inspired by Dresden Files and SCP.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113699.msg3470055#msg3470055
http://www.tf2items.com/id/MisterWigggles666#

Getix Kain

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2014, 05:34:46 am »

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.

Or ask for the 1.0 release date  :o
Logged

Dame de la Licorne

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cats? Check. FPS? Uh-oh...
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2014, 06:53:59 am »

Hiya,

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.

Or ask for the 1.0 release date  :o

Or mention multi-threading the game.

All that aside, the community here tends to be fairly accepting and helpful.

-Dame de la Licorne
Logged
If software was real world, then it'd be something equivalent of hitting a nail with a hammer and having a building collapse on the other side of town.

Don't worry people, sometimes -moments occur

BoredVirulence

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2014, 09:46:44 am »

Hiya,

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.

Or ask for the 1.0 release date  :o

Or mention multi-threading the game.

All that aside, the community here tends to be fairly accepting and helpful.

-Dame de la Licorne
TIleset Vs. ASCII

We can talk about genocide, culling of children, maiming migrants just for doctor experience, and production of weapons of mass destruction, but you dare say that ASCII is bad, or tilesets impure, and be prepared.

Most people here aren't very confrontational. The ones who are usually don't mean to be, its just their questionable personalities. The only qualification for getting along here is to check your sanity at the door, we don't need it or its moral high ground.
Logged