Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Daonitre]

While I'm sure this kind of thread has been opened before, I was specifically asked this question 3 times while streaming the other day. I figured it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and have something exact to point people towards, as the wiki isn't terribly descriptive as to the actual setup.

NOTES: This is intended for relatively new players; you need to know how to use mechanisms, digging, channeling, and carving fortifications to drain water or have another mass water removal option. These pictures were taken like 3 years into this fort. I've been attacked every 2-3 seasons since embark so I'm having some trouble keeping up with all the crazy that's going on... all the same I managed to get it dug and working. Ignore the idler count (in siege throws it off until they get reassigned), terrible stair layout (haven't set up the quickfort and too lazy to make sure everything is perfect), and other oddities outside of the cistern. If you have any questions please ask in the thread so that others can benefit from the answer as well. Feel free to PM me but don't expect an answer any time soon -- I only have a couple days a week to play and I spent most of that time in game. If you think you see a bug where water isn't properly being pressurized into the hospital cistern - you're right... it's already posted to the mantis and doesn't actually change the effectiveness of the overall construction.

Legend:
RED: Standard portion of this design
ORANGE: Additional requirements if you're inviting !Fun!
YELLOW: Totally optional... but you've been warned.

Getting started: If you have a river or brook you're already set; If you've got ocean it'll work with some minor changes; If you embarked with only a few pools on the map good luck (try building you're fort UNDER the cavern layer with water and use that instead). Assuming you have a good starting fort, create the cistern area with the river channels known but not dug -- you don't want to be trying to dig the cistern while racing the 20 seconds it'll take for the water to hit your miners. The top layer should be something like this at the end:

Spoiler: River Layer (click to show/hide)

If you are worried about creatures breaking your floodgates (or are trying to avoid !Fun!) use a bridge underneath instead of floodgates. When raised it can't be destroyed by building destroyers from the opposite direction it raises towards. You will want to either floor over or build a bridge over the area you will channel - but you may want to hold off on that until everything else is working.

Spoiler: Intake Layer (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Well Layer (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: (Optional) Maintenance Layer (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Automatic Overflow Layer (click to show/hide)

Keep in mind this will NOT protect long term flooding if your exit paths are not wide/deep enough... the ones in these pics are good enough to give me time to open the regular drain gates (shown further down). If you want full protection, aim for 1.5-2x the area of your intake valve

Spoiler: Fill Layer (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Cistern Floor (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Drain Layer (click to show/hide)

Run into a sudden flood anyway? Instead of just opening the drain, set the lever to be repeat pulled... it'll destroy the water as well. Just remember to clear any debris that may have been pushed onto them before attempting to close for refill.
This construction can be completed with a single miner... but I'd recommend 2-3 to get it done right quickly... with 3-4 miners, a mechanic, cutter, and carpenter (wood floodgates) it's normally possible to get this built before the first thaw of your fort was embarked in winter.
If you're in a warm-hot area that doesn't get enough freeze time to channel the riverbed, channel 2 squares off the side of the river, floor over the channel drops, then channel the area between your new outdoor floors and the water source. This'll pull water off the side - it's not quite as fast but it works all the same.
If you forget to build the bridge over the top before starting to fill the cistern, you're likely to wash (read "kill") a dwarf or 4 into the pit ... in fact, lets just designate the riverbed (below the bridge and the water areas around that) as restricted (d-o-r) and the bridge as high traffic (d-o-h).
Again, the layers are the important part - the actual size of the cistern and fill areas to other wells are entirely up to you. Some people like to have separate cisterns for opposite sides of their base, and most people that survive past the cavern layers will find a need for an additional cistern deep in the earth. The same concept applies: you want access for cleaning, overflow, intake, and drain... having a fill layer between allows more water available at once meaning more time between refills.

As the pictures here may be too small for (most) people to read, it appears that photobucket has decided to shrink my pictures (which is actually good for the forum, just not readability). Try zooming in ([Ctrl]+[+]). I'll fix it later so don't bother commenting on the "I can't read blah blah blah." Please feel free to comment here, inquire, suggest, share, copy, re-post, link to, or otherwise put this information anywhere you want... just remember to mention me somewhere, preferably linking back to this.

[Deboche]

I don't understand the whole thing. What's the advantage of this setup compared to digging against the side of the river and use a door to control the water? With possibly a fortification in the unlikely chance that something will crawl into the river and break your door

[blue sam3]

Why not simply use pressure gates to avoid overflows?

[Daonitre]

I don't understand the whole thing. What's the advantage of this setup compared to digging against the side of the river and use a door to control the water? With possibly a fortification in the unlikely chance that something will crawl into the river and break your door

You answered your own question; Also, doors aren't terribly stable for this as things can move into them too easily and often which will hold them open. The reality is that using a bridge is best, fortifications are easier to manage (visually), and doors just suck. Call it player choice.

Why not simply use pressure gates to avoid overflows?

Good question! Pressure gates can be broken, are subject to occasional tick timing issues, and take longer to set up. Pressure gates could easily be added to the overflow areas later on to automatically open the drain gates as well if you wanted them to. Again, player choice - but this is a "dirty quick and easy" setup intended for newer players (under 1 month playtime) ... I don't know of anyone who's been able to get pressure gates working who hasn't played for at least that long.

[Deboche]

You answered your own question; Also, doors aren't terribly stable for this as things can move into them too easily and often which will hold them open. The reality is that using a bridge is best, fortifications are easier to manage (visually), and doors just suck. Call it player choice.

Just seems like a lot of work when you can simply build this:

>DFD_River

> - downward stairway to your well
D - Door
F - Fortification
D - Door
_ Empty space that your miner dug out

Once the river flows to your well and you have a full cistern, you'd have to empty it completely for dwarves to be able to reach those doors which never happens and why would it? The door is closed most of the time and it's controlled by mechanisms, the only way to jam it is by choice.

Doesn't seem like that reality is very real if you have trouble with floods and need to use tricks like repeating lever commands to make water disappear.

You can have your well ready before Summer, all you need is to make the chain/rope, 7 mechanism, a bucket, 2 doors and the fortification.

[Loci]

I don't understand the whole thing. What's the advantage of this setup compared to digging against the side of the river and use a door to control the water? With possibly a fortification in the unlikely chance that something will crawl into the river and break your door

Submerged fortifications do not block creatures!


Also, here's my standard recommendation for a safe well.

[Deboche]

I didn't know that about fortifications though with my setup the fortification is dry unless someone breaks the outer door and enemies won't try to path that way.

Your safe well also seems a bit too complicated, just have a grate leading to a 1 tile hallway with a door, like this:

                   X___River
__W__          X <- Put the grate here, on one of the up/down stairways
O     OOOOOOX
O___________X
           /\door here

So the steps would be:
1 - dig a channel where you want the well
2 - dig the cistern
3 - make a path from the cistern to the river and one to somewhere in your fortress so your dwarves can get in and out
4 - Build a door connected to a lever before you break into the river
5 - Open the door and break into the river then close it again(you can also break in before you connect it to a lever and the miner will just close it behind him as he flees from the water, then connect it)
6 - On one of the up/down stairways from the cistern to the river, install the grate - above the cistern water level if these also have to stay dry
7 - Make another door attached to a lever somewhere in the tunnel
8 - Build the well

I also like to put a locked hatch in the accessway from the fortress to the cistern but dwarves never try to go down there anyway

[Daonitre]

Also, here's my standard recommendation for a safe well.

Awesome. I can honestly say I haven't looked up Pressure on the wiki since around 2008... It really hadn't changed enough for me to bother. I'll have to use that in my next base and see how it works out. I expect flooding once the water pressure is working correctly again, but such is the will of Armok. He seems to hate me.

...with my setup the fortification is dry unless until you fill the cistern or someone breaks the outer door and enemies won't try to who have ridiculously high swimming ability or are waterbreathers will always path that way.

Fixed; You're inviting !Fun!... nothing wrong with that but the idea of this thread is for new players to avoid it.

Your safe well also seems a bit too complicated, just have a grate leading to a 1 tile hallway with a door, like...

The safe well on the wiki is less complicated, quicker, and faster to fill than what you're talking about - also, it doesn't require any constructions. Mine is safer than both and far faster to fill.

I also like to put a locked hatch in the accessway from the fortress to the cistern but dwarves never try to go down there anyway

Finally something I agree with you on... Hatches are great for aesthetic value and keeping out idiots/pets but are otherwise useless in a general cistern. Please stop talking about doors in cisterns, they have no place there other than as maintenance doors (and even then it's better to use stairs).

... the only way to jam it is by choice.

...or by a fish swimming into it, or a corpse, or a weretoad, or . . .

Doesn't seem like that reality is very real if you have trouble with floods and need to use tricks like repeating lever commands to make water disappear.

It's obvious you aren't paying attention to my previous posts. If you are a novice please do not make set suggestions in a thread intended to teach novices - by all means feel free to comment "why, what if, etc" but don't come in and tell people that another way is wrong and yours is better when you don't really know what you're talking about.
"Doesn't seem like that reality is very real" ... reality is defined as "being in existence / being real". I clearly stated that your drain/overflow area has to be larger than your intake area if you want to guarantee no overflow... this is a very realistic concept: I'd bet you have 2-3 of them in your bathroom right now, and one of them doesn't work very well. The whole mention of the repeat lever was only for those who aren't reading the posts, like yourself, or those who misjudge the amounts.

Please note the OP (Original Post, for anyone who doesn't already know) is specifically my design. I'm not saying a better way doesn't exist... though it obviously is far better than most I've seen while lurking. Created through many years of small changes. I require a very large amount of water manipulation in my maps: Primary well/Cistern is only the beginning, I branch out to hospital and cage areas, larger cistern deeper (generally around 21x21x4 between 2nd cavern layer and magma sea based on the intentions), I build pressure plate drinking areas for underground grazers (for fun which doubles as fishing area generally), underground fishing halls/rooms, pressure plate meeting halls for swim skill, and if I start to get bored I go into obsidian farming. In high evil territory I also place pressure plate circulating water at my front entrance 'just in case' a trackable diseased or worse blood/etc tries to come through (think of the CDC entry tents). This always requires more than a 1-wide waterway unless I feel like waiting 2 years during every refill. I very easily could have included all of these builds, each with my own preferred style, but instead created a "let's just help the new guy get started" thread. Please keep that in mind if you're looking to add your own build to the post.