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Author Topic: Question: Why longer history?  (Read 1131 times)

Dwarf_Fever

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Question: Why longer history?
« on: August 16, 2014, 04:51:00 pm »

For purposes of playing Dwarf Fortress-mode, what, if any, advantages or effects are there to letting world history run for more years?
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"Whatever exists, having somehow come into being, is again and again reinterpreted to new ends, taken over, transformed, and redirected by some power superior to it; all events in the organic world are a subduing, a becoming master, and all subduing and becoming master involves a fresh interpretation, an adaptation through which any previous 'meaning' and 'purpose' are necessarily obscured or obliterated."

Blastbeard

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Re: Question: Why longer history?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 05:07:28 pm »

A couple of things of things change the longer history generates for, good and bad. Civilizations will weaken and die out, removing potential threats and possibly creating points of interest to reclaim in fort mode or raid for loot as an adventurer.
It's the same story with megabeasts, the longer you wait the less you'll have to deal with and the ones that do arrive will be far more prolific than specimens from younger worlds. Case in point dragons, who need a thousand years to reach their massive adult size.
Goblin civilizations that stand the test of time will diversify greatly due to snatching, and in older worlds these so-called goblin nations may contain no goblins at all. Other nations will accumulate foreign sentients over time as well, but in my experience dwarven nations acquire the least amount of foreigners and fort immigrants will always be dwarves.
I also notice shrine dwelling monsters such as colossi and titans tend to acumulate much more wealth over time, with something similar for rocs and their nests.

It's the little things that make a difference.
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Dwarf_Fever

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Re: Question: Why longer history?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 05:12:54 pm »

Huh, very interesting!

Would you say that worlds start out generic, and become more diverse over time? Or is it more the case that they tend to wear down into a certain, same shape regardless of how they start?
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"Whatever exists, having somehow come into being, is again and again reinterpreted to new ends, taken over, transformed, and redirected by some power superior to it; all events in the organic world are a subduing, a becoming master, and all subduing and becoming master involves a fresh interpretation, an adaptation through which any previous 'meaning' and 'purpose' are necessarily obscured or obliterated."

locustgate

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Re: Question: Why longer history?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 05:28:59 pm »

Huh, very interesting!

Would you say that worlds start out generic, and become more diverse over time? Or is it more the case that they tend to wear down into a certain, same shape regardless of how they start?

Depends, there's a current problem with goblins taking over the world, this can be solved with decreasing their maxage to 50-70. You will not get splinter factions, i.e. the dwarves of Ding dong ditch split into the dwarves of Bing and Ding. But you can end with less civilizations or larger ones.
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Dwarf_Fever

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Re: Question: Why longer history?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 05:41:20 pm »

Well, this is all new to me since I usually don't want to wait before I jump into my fortress mode, so I stop at 5-100 years of history, but is there a certain world generation period of time that any of you think is the most "interesting?"
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Blastbeard

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Re: Question: Why longer history?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 05:52:08 pm »

There's quite a few examples of worlds that completely wear down over longer histories. By two or even ten thousand years, all civilized races can either be extinct or barely clinging to life in caves. This typically stems from having too many megabeasts for them to handle, and currently being unable to repair their sites after they sustain damage during beast rampages and warefare. That's why most towns visited in older worlds have so many abandoned shops and destroyed buildings. It's not that nobody wants to live there, it's that they are currently unable to renovate those areas.

On the other hand, young worlds just don't have as much going on in them. Yes, there's more megabeasts to fight, but most of the time they haven't had time to distinguish themselves or acquire enough loot or notoriety to justify going after them. There's also a lot less vampire, werebeasts, and necromancers/custom interaction users, meaning it's more difficult to find such individuals for whatever purpose you desire. It's more likely to find more diverse night trolls earlier on though, that manner of generated monster is relatively easy to kill and the majority tend not to survive world gen, but the ones that survive and proliferate through longer histories make worthy opponents.

There is one other quirk of longer histories, highly skilled immortals. Elves and vanilla goblins don't die of old age, and that gives them an eternity to hone their combat skills. This leads to a large number of elite warriors among such races, especially elves.

Also, there's a gimmick you can pull with very long histories. The longer history runs, the more likely all dwarves/playable races will die out. However, as long as a nation of playable creatures existed at one point, you can embark as that nation in fortress mode with seven spontaneously generated individuals, with two guaranteed(hard-coded) migrant waves of similar such individuals. You will never receive any migrants, traders, or sieges, which some people really really enjoy. Right now, there seems to be a quirk where one of the founding seven will declare themselves the nation's ruler, appoint a hammerer if none exists, and issue a mandate far too early for you to handle in such a case. That's not a bug, but it is something you have to deal with right now.

Personally, I prefer worlds that aren't too young but not too old. I try to gen it to a thousand years, give any dragons from the beginning time to reach adult size. More recently, I've taken to genning to anywhere from 300 to 700 years, and that works as well.
Although this leads to partially abandoned cities with lower population densities than hamlets, it also leads to a lot more diversity in those populations, and I frequently see equal parts elf, dwarf, and goblin mixed in among human settlements by that time. There are many night creatures for me to hunt and destroy, and whatever megabeasts and titans live that long have done enough damage that slaying them is something I can brag about without ego.
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Dwarf_Fever

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Re: Question: Why longer history?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 05:58:51 pm »

I might have to run my world gen a bit longer now. Thanks for the insights!
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Edmus

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Re: Question: Why longer history?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 07:48:11 pm »

If it's a matter of playability, short worlds run better and save faster. However, sometimes if you run the game long enough so few will be alive that the speed picks up again.
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