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Author Topic: It's been a while, what do I need to know?  (Read 642 times)

stormtemplar

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It's been a while, what do I need to know?
« on: July 29, 2014, 06:47:11 pm »

Hey all, it's been a bit since I've played this game regularly. I played some on .34, and a bunch on .31, so what do I need to know about in .4? There seem to be a lot of new changes, but I'm having trouble understanding everything. What do I need to know about to stave off defeat for a little longer? Can I get the cliff notes on this patch?
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therahedwig

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Re: It's been a while, what do I need to know?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 04:18:07 am »

-Treesroots should only be dug away after the tree above is gone.

-Fliers tend to get stuck in mid air, which may cause lag and/or siegers nit appearing(amongst other bugs with sieges, just piss off the elves or the humans if you want proper sieges, because goblins and necromancer neighbouring tends to dissapear.

-Don't gather plants till mid-summer if you want to use the new fruits. Otherwise you end up with useless plants that can't be eaten.

-The morale-system is still off balance. Everything is scared of everything, unless they have discipline, so if you get a siege, don't be surprised if the siegers run away after one casualty.

-There's a bug with brewing. Make one stone pot to get around that.

-Traps have been nerfed massively. Where a goblin would be sliced and diced previously, they can easily walk through a trap corridor with no pain. Has something to do with mechnism quality, but also a little bugged.

-Some of the old bugs have been fixed, amongst which ranged weaponry being overpowered. Do peruse the version changes carefully.

-Sometimes you end up with one of your workers randomly becoming king due succession happening.

-Dwarves can climb out of moats now... but so do invaders.

-Trees can burn and be a firehazard.

... I think these were the basic ones.
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celem

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Re: It's been a while, what do I need to know?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 04:26:55 am »

First disclaimer.  I'm in much the same boat as you, absent more or less since early 31.xxs but i've trashed a few 40_xx forts so can offer a few pointers specifically with regard to changes.

In answer to the post above (written simultaneously): the plants generated outside of summer cant always be eaten raw but many brew, cook, mill and process.  Also traps are hitting for me, not the instant wtf limb severing it was but they hit.  I've always been careful about the mechanisms in weapon traps though, quality was always accuracy, maybe that got tightened up a bit.  Digging tree roots is also a fine tactic if you just want the tree gone without generating wood, be aware thats how it works, tree just goes poof, never was.

A lot of the changes feel like they are heaviest in adventure with the active world and all that, combat mechanics got rewritten, will impact both but only once combat actually triggers.

FLIER -
First up, theres something whack with fliers.  Fine they were always whack...more whack than usual.  Flying animals wont move, they just sit there in the air, I embarked with 6 wild ravens that hadnt budged a single tile by 3 years later, coincidentally blocking any more animals, seiges, even snatchers from entering the map.  They dont move or leave, and are only replaced by a new critter if killed.  Step one for me is find/replace on the RAWs to remove all [FLIER] incidences.  Behaves fine with this done, you just got lots of birds wandering about (they will leave and free up spaces properly on the ground)

WOOD -
Fort mode is much as it always was to be honest.  In 40_05 at least im not seeing any elven diplos, so its back to deforrestation on epic scale.  That said, any mature tree with 3+ z-levels behind it is gonna drop 5-15 logs so wood scarcity is not nearly the issue it was.  Running early metal industry (managed iron by 1st caravan no problems) is super viable since you can spare wood for charcoal even with barrels, bins and beds churning out.  Its quite easy to 'lock-up' an early fort by having a wood pile too large, everyone set to haul wood and being a bit aggressive in your felling, so keep an eye on it.  My first try in 40 i designated on pause at the start as usual, unpaused and made coffee, came back to 600 logs but nothing else had happened and everyone was on wood duty. *sigh*

TREE FARMING -
Assuming you actually have 40_05 and not an earlier 40 release you dont have to worry about trees drilling through layers, which was a P.I.T.A to manage though amusing.  I did see a lot of problems with felling trees causing something to punch a hole into my first soil layer, this happened when felling a tree on z-1 that had punched through and capped out at z+1 or more.  Felling said tree on z0 left no hole where the trunk punched through and properly harvested the 1-log stump on -1 at the same time, but the other falling logs from above seemed to be bashing through (though it never generated cave-in alerts).  At any rate I had a lot of holes to fill, so if on 40 below v_05 dont do subterranean tree farms.  This was fixed in 40_05 but means that you now for the first time need a proper multi-z level hall for underground tree farms.  a single z-level will never grow trees, just saplings that die.  I find 3 levels gives a usable farm so you want thick soil layers or you will have to muddy stone to get the saplings to take hold deep enough.

SURFACE PLANTS -
One area that has definately changed my 'start-up routine' is the new surface plants.  Traditionaly I build a small farm area first summer, primarily plump helmets, maybe some pigtails in the rotation.  Now its fully viable to never plant underground at all.  The range of plants available to grow on the surface has increased by an order of magnitude and many of the options have alcohol products.  My last 2 forts i've put every dwarf on herbalism and quickly cleared a swathe of the surface plants to get some samples for seeds, then built a cluster of 4x1 fields.  Anything that looks like a berry seems to be a good bet, most brew just fine, theres also a range of dye/flour/fabric options on the surface crops. 
Caveat if you have a go-to fortress design like me:  A seed-only food pile set to accept no barrels right by the farm plots is (or at least was) the universal farm design to cut back on cancelation-spam.  This pile will need to be considerably bigger if you are going to 'herbalism' the surface and you will need to consider bags for seeds more actively on the logistical side (make/buy some) as you can end up with a lot of different varieties (which take 1 bag and 1 tile each in a barrel-less pile). 

edit: oh and farm plots on the surface still cry about needing mud.  they dont, and will still cry even if you give them mud so dont bother

BANDITS -
Another change that has altered my play-style a little is the roving groups of entities on the world map brought by the active world upgrade.  Having been an older player you likely know the various triggers for goblins/MBs etc with regard to pop/wealth.  I've had a number of forts now take a 'goblin seige' in the first year, sometimes before the dwarven caravan.  Even where that fort then recieves no more hostiles for some years.  A check through legends afterwards indicates that these are not actually seiges coming from the goblin civ but a group of all-goblin bandits who stumble across my site real fast.  So be prepared for a little early-action.

DISCIPLINE, HORROR -
Lastly, theres one aspect of the combat changes can be felt real easy in fort mode and thats discipline.  This skill is now used to control whether dwarves flee from scary stuff.  Gone are the days of civilian dwarves running from wildlife, they ignore it now.  All living things seem susceptible to horror, they can be horrified into immobility if they fail a Disc check.  Not sure exactly what causes them to take these checks yet, but the goblin bandits I mentioned above lacked Disc and several froze in horror when I deployed my squads (as did 2 of my own militia who had not been training long enough to start gaining Disc!).  Wild animals also seem to be affected by horror.  You can even horrify your haulers if they have to pass a refuse pile containing sentient remains (this trains their Disc, i have 3 goblin skeletons in a pile on the route to the Depot, occassionally a hauler freezes but they are all dabbling/novice disc now).  Witnessing death now seems tied into the horror system.  I have no proof, only supposition, but I imagine this system has completely replaced the old 'used to death' adaptation system.

Final thought:  Dwarvern thoughts expanded a bit.  Still a bit of a mess to trawl through but they now have a dream.  Accomplishing this doesnt seem to do anything yet, not even noticed a happy thought associated.  Also the addition of a number of randomly generated spoiler-related metals can give a few very difficult to satisfy preferences to watch for in nobles.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 04:46:06 am by celem »
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greycat

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Re: It's been a while, what do I need to know?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 09:41:35 am »

-Traps have been nerfed massively. Where a goblin would be sliced and diced previously, they can easily walk through a trap corridor with no pain. Has something to do with mechnism quality, but also a little bugged.

It's nothing to do with mechanism quality.  It's simply that goblins are running through the traps so fast that they don't get hit, since the weapon trap attacks are no longer instantaneous.  If you had slower goblins, or if you could get the goblins to stand still on the traps, they'd get chopped up just like before.

Cage traps work the same as always.  Those are still instantaneous.

I don't know about stone-fall traps.  I never make those.
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samanato

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Re: It's been a while, what do I need to know?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 11:13:33 am »

It's nothing to do with mechanism quality.  It's simply that goblins are running through the traps so fast that they don't get hit, since the weapon trap attacks are no longer instantaneous.  If you had slower goblins, or if you could get the goblins to stand still on the traps, they'd get chopped up just like before.

That, basically.  It's part of the combat overhaul in .40, which is a big change altogether.  Weapon traps have [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:x:x] tokens as any other form of attack, which is responsible for the delayed reaction. 

The brewing bug is apparently a part of an old bug with reactions conflicting with burrows.  That or just dwarves being greedy with hauling jobs and taking the whole barrel, the plants are stored in. 

Sieges are really buggy at the moment, and it's not quite clear, what's blocking them.  The stuck fliers might be one part of it, but there is a thread about player sites for whatever reason losing all contact with hostile entities.

Speaking of combat changes, in answer to OP, there is a very huge combat overhaul.  Attacks are no longer instantaneous, multiple attacks from one creature (hydras, ettins) are possible, and body parts can be mangled beyond recognition (which also permanently kills zombies)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 11:16:37 am by samanato »
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