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Author Topic: How can I make a world where I get no immigrants past the two hardcoded waves?  (Read 869 times)

Echostatic

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My last world was about 1,400 years old. The goblins were the only civ left. I ended up with one of my dwarves becoming king. This is why I found it very strange that a dwarven caravan came, albeit with no liaison. Where could it have come from? And where do all the new migrant waves keep coming from? I just want a world where I have to survive with what I can bring, make, and the few dwarves I have after a couple migrant waves.
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joojoo1975

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if your using lazy new back you can limit the pop cap

the initial hardcoded waves are like 2 or 3

what I do is limit pop cap to 1 and you'll only get the hard coded waves.


if your not using lazy newb pack then I suggest you google limiting population cap and your answer will be forth coming
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Echostatic

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I reckon that would work. I'm still curious about where all the dwarves, and the caravan, were coming from, though. How can I get a caravan if there are no other dwarven sites?
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greycat

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Immigrants are vastly different in 0.40 compared to 0.34.  The notion of "my civ is dead so I get no immigrants after the first 2 waves" is completely gone now.  You're left with just the population cap, and that's currently bugged (but Toady made some fixes that are supposed to be in 0.40.05, which is supposed to come out of its cave tomorrow).
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Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

Echostatic

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Well hmm. Is it known where the migrating dwarves come from, then?
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UltraMagnus

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Well hmm. Is it known where the migrating dwarves come from, then?
Nomads?

Codyo

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Well hmm. Is it known where the migrating dwarves come from, then?
Nomads?

Yeah I wouldn't assume that just because there is no government representing dwarves, it must mean that there has been a complete genocide of the species.
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UltraMagnus

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Well hmm. Is it known where the migrating dwarves come from, then?
Nomads?

Yeah I wouldn't assume that just because there is no government representing dwarves, it must mean that there has been a complete genocide of the species.
You know what? Fine. What about this then?

You're a beacon. You're one of the last, neigh, you are the last great dwarven civilization on the planet. Fleeing from a crumbling Mountainhome, you try to think back to the point where Armok decided to smite your kind.
You build a fortress, with a handful of supplies and dig your way deeper in the glories of old. The goblins, elves, and humans learn that the proud dwarves have not all died in freaky self-induced accidents or hilariously horrific war yet, and decided to investigate.
Some of them are cocky, thinking that the last dwarves here will act as zoo specimen, to provide a wonderful show in the final moments of the species' known presence in the entire world. To watch these moments would great entertainment. To cause those final moments is a great honor.
You have several unfortunate run-ins with hostiles before news spreads throughout the land of the last dwarven civilization, not helped by the scouts that investigated your group as it set out for its current home.
And these rumors grow, for the new extinction of an entire species of drunken, bloodthirsty midgets is enough to spark even the most dull of dinner conversations.
As the townspeople of the continents start to spread their rumors, the stragglers start to learn of your fortress. So, using what little money they have and what few supplies, due to living in constant hiding, embark to join their dwarven brethren. They arrive in a small number of waves, having found each other and used their collective knowledge to desperately survive while on the move. Groups of migrants approximately cut down to half of their living members due to disasters on the way to the fortress, such as the continued persecution of dwarves, diseases that grip the vitals with no hospital in sight, hunger, drowning, and predatory encounters. The stragglers that are not so lucky to find a group of migrants never reach the fortress in this life.

The caravans, however, are different.
The caravans ride to go throughout the continent, continuing business as usual, constantly on the move with care to outrun persecution. They collect from all over the land items that sparkle in their dwarven eyes, and even find the time in the wilderness to make their own goods. After all, they're traveling merchants. They need at least some survival skills to stay alive on the road, and the trait of being one of the last dwarven peoples makes their craftsmanship fetch a high price on the market. After all, nobody wants to go to the only other source of fine rock mugs in the world, since it is currently being attacked by goblins and all sorts of nasty beasts too dangerous for the average civilian.
When they hear of the last great fortress, they decide to routinely stop to visit their kin, out-speeding the goblins on foot and using their food stocks to distract war beasts. It is worth it in the end, for the commerce helps with the trade supplies and helps to ensure the dwarven beauty of carved soap is plentiful enough for the world. It helps the wallet, and it helps the soul. The merchants, for a majority of their time, are alone, with whatever dozen or so caged cats they were sold to keep them company. Seeing the Trade Depot, the merchants unload their goods, and find the dwarf in charge of commerce. With a spark of nostalgia, pleasantly lost in a time when the species held the strength of many great bunkers, bastions, and bars, the liaison smiles. He recites the common greeting of his trade.
"Greetings from the Mountainhome..."

Echostatic

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...Well that's pretty darn inspiring. Very fitting, I think.
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KingKaol

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You're left with just the population cap, and that's currently bugged

The behavior that I've noticed is that the cap only seems to be checked once at the beginning of the year, so you may receive waves all year long even if the first one puts you over the cap. Whether that's a 'bug' or not I can't say.
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Larix

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I haven't played with run-time migration control in .40.x, but in .34.11, the game checked the _current_ setting of the population cap against the _last reported_ population count every season (quite early in the season, weeks or months before the migrants actually arrived). Whether or not your current population changed between caravans was completely irrelevant, the migrant-spawning code always ran off the last report.

But, and that's a very fundamental but, if you saved, exited, changed your population cap and restarted (so the init settings got loaded by the game), the game would check the (old) population count against the _new_ population cap for the following seasons. I.e. what the caravan reports home is how many dwarfs you got, not how many dwarfs you ordered. If you want to regulate your dwarf count during the year, you must do this by changing your population cap so it's over or under the last-reported (not current!) population count. I successfully "stopped" and "started" migration in the middle of the year by changing population caps like that.

I think it's quite likely that the rules haven't changed; they're not at all easy to decipher and not very well known.
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greycat

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Whether that's a 'bug' or not I can't say.

I'm going by the fact that Toady marked Bug #2922: Population Cap not working as "fixed in next version".  His actual note in the bug report says,
Quote
I've tried to make this a little more useful, and it should control migrant waves now, to the point of preventing families that are too large from coming and also stopping generated families from bringing children and so on. Monarch arrival can still break the cap, but that should be an isolated event. I also added another cap that will stop fort births from violating the cap, and set the defaults to 200/220.
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Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

vjmdhzgr

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Well hmm. Is it known where the migrating dwarves come from, then?
Nomads?

Yeah I wouldn't assume that just because there is no government representing dwarves, it must mean that there has been a complete genocide of the species.
You know what? Fine. What about this then?
[A lot of text I removed because it wasn't necessary and was a huge amount of text]
You're acting like dwarves are hated as much as goblins. Dwarves are normally good allies with humans and elves so it's not like they're being hunted to extinction by everything. Goblins might try to stop a new fortress from being founded, but even goblins are okay with living with dwarves so long as they act like a normal goblin. It's pretty much the same thing as you said, but without all the dwarves being hunted to extinction constantly by every living thing.
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Its a feature. Impregnating booze is a planned tech tree for dwarves and this is a sneak peek at it.
Unless you're past reproductive age. Then you're pretty much an extension of your kids' genitalia

UltraMagnus

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Well hmm. Is it known where the migrating dwarves come from, then?
Nomads?

Yeah I wouldn't assume that just because there is no government representing dwarves, it must mean that there has been a complete genocide of the species.
You know what? Fine. What about this then?
[A lot of text I removed because it wasn't necessary and was a huge amount of text]
You're acting like dwarves are hated as much as goblins. Dwarves are normally good allies with humans and elves so it's not like they're being hunted to extinction by everything. Goblins might try to stop a new fortress from being founded, but even goblins are okay with living with dwarves so long as they act like a normal goblin. It's pretty much the same thing as you said, but without all the dwarves being hunted to extinction constantly by every living thing.
Calling bullshit on that rebuttal. Elves and dwarves being friends? Begone, heretic, for suggesting such a terrible thought.

_elf

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You know what? Fine. What about this then?

You're a beacon. You're one of the last, neigh, you are the last great dwarven civilization on the planet. Fleeing from a crumbling Mountainhome, you try to think back to the point where Armok decided to smite your kind.
You build a fortress, with a handful of supplies and dig your way deeper in the glories of old. The goblins, elves, and humans learn that the proud dwarves have not all died in freaky self-induced accidents or hilariously horrific war yet, and decided to investigate.
Some of them are cocky, thinking that the last dwarves here will act as zoo specimen, to provide a wonderful show in the final moments of the species' known presence in the entire world. To watch these moments would great entertainment. To cause those final moments is a great honor.
You have several unfortunate run-ins with hostiles before news spreads throughout the land of the last dwarven civilization, not helped by the scouts that investigated your group as it set out for its current home.
And these rumors grow, for the new extinction of an entire species of drunken, bloodthirsty midgets is enough to spark even the most dull of dinner conversations.
As the townspeople of the continents start to spread their rumors, the stragglers start to learn of your fortress. So, using what little money they have and what few supplies, due to living in constant hiding, embark to join their dwarven brethren. They arrive in a small number of waves, having found each other and used their collective knowledge to desperately survive while on the move. Groups of migrants approximately cut down to half of their living members due to disasters on the way to the fortress, such as the continued persecution of dwarves, diseases that grip the vitals with no hospital in sight, hunger, drowning, and predatory encounters. The stragglers that are not so lucky to find a group of migrants never reach the fortress in this life.

The caravans, however, are different.
The caravans ride to go throughout the continent, continuing business as usual, constantly on the move with care to outrun persecution. They collect from all over the land items that sparkle in their dwarven eyes, and even find the time in the wilderness to make their own goods. After all, they're traveling merchants. They need at least some survival skills to stay alive on the road, and the trait of being one of the last dwarven peoples makes their craftsmanship fetch a high price on the market. After all, nobody wants to go to the only other source of fine rock mugs in the world, since it is currently being attacked by goblins and all sorts of nasty beasts too dangerous for the average civilian.
When they hear of the last great fortress, they decide to routinely stop to visit their kin, out-speeding the goblins on foot and using their food stocks to distract war beasts. It is worth it in the end, for the commerce helps with the trade supplies and helps to ensure the dwarven beauty of carved soap is plentiful enough for the world. It helps the wallet, and it helps the soul. The merchants, for a majority of their time, are alone, with whatever dozen or so caged cats they were sold to keep them company. Seeing the Trade Depot, the merchants unload their goods, and find the dwarf in charge of commerce. With a spark of nostalgia, pleasantly lost in a time when the species held the strength of many great bunkers, bastions, and bars, the liaison smiles. He recites the common greeting of his trade.
"Greetings from the Mountainhome..."

I enjoyed that immensely. It's almost as if, in that very greeting, given the context, everything that you'd ever need to know about the world and about being in the world is conveyed to the listener.
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