Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Squemish Doctors  (Read 4880 times)

Miuramir

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Squemish Doctors
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2014, 01:33:40 pm »


Well back in the 13th century which I suppose DF is supposed to be approximately based on, most surgeons and dentists were actually barbers. They had the experience of doing delicate work with very sharp knives. Although some people claim that quite a few were also torturers, experts on just how and where to cut people without making them die.

DF does a reasonable job of this if you set it up that way; you could have a chief diagnostician who is your "academic doctor", and a separate surgeon who is more "working class" and has some related job (animal dissector, butcher, etc.).  Most players don't do this of course. 

Quote
Cutting up cadavers did not really come into the picture until a few centuries later. Even then it was done generally in secret since church did not like it at all.

That's tricky.  I'd argue that it was more common earlier; Pope Boniface VIII (funny hat 1294 - 1303) had a variety of issues, including some odd ones about "bodily integrity".  As I understand it, the papal bull of 1300 prohibiting Mos Teutonicus (basically, turn corpse into skeleton for more practical transport home e.g. from a crusade) did not technically ban post-mortem dissection, but was apparently interpreted that way in some places, and had a chilling effect post-1300. 

Quote
On another point, medieval people should be much more accustomed to seeing blood and death around with butchery being more or less daily or at least weekly business at a farm, though in DF butchery seems to be just pressing the magic button that makes an animal fall apart into neat stacks of meat and bones.

Hmm, I'd argue against "daily", and probably not even "weekly".  But for traditional farmers not at either the lowest or upper levels, a few times a year certainly.  An additional wrinkle is that in DF, farming is so much more efficient, and pasturing so iffy, that it's arguable whether peasants would have a "meat industry" at all.  Raising poultry mostly for eggs is both historically valid and functional in DF, though, so you'd end up with at least some old birds "retired" to the soup pot. 

That said... Butcher and Animal Dissector should train Discipline fairly effectively along with the medical skills; with Trapper, Ambusher, Fish Cleaner, Fish Dissector, Tanner, and (probably) Alchemist having at least some as well.  Note that this is really two suggestions: one is that pre-generated dwarves with relevant skills should also be given a good chance for some Discipline; and also that training these skills should also train Discipline. 

Assigning your battlefield-surgeon-in-training to a few months of sparring with a unit, and a few months of hacking up all sorts of bizarre animals for the kitchen, should be pretty good preparation for the brutal reality of DF hospital care; it makes both real-world and DF internal sense IMO. 
Logged

therahedwig

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • wolthera.info
Re: Squemish Doctors
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2014, 01:44:21 pm »

Quote
An additional wrinkle is that in DF, farming is so much more efficient, and pasturing so iffy, that it's arguable whether peasants would have a "meat industry" at all.

Improved/more realistic/challenging farming is on the dev list. It's why we got all those crops and garden plants this update, and I wouldn't be surprised that when Toady starts working on the fruit gathering, we'll see farming being changed as well.
Logged
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 Alternate detailed and darker tiles for stonesense. Now with all ores!

senilking

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Squemish Doctors
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2014, 02:18:30 pm »

You could try modding milk to give a temporary [NO_FEAR] flag maybe. Getting your dwarfs to drink it would be hard.

I thought that was the whole point of dwarves boozing up? They couldn't handle day to day, so they drank them selves into a stupor, grabbed a pick axe, and started beating on that warm rock because some unforseen force told them to? Maybe dwarves should start with a mediocre discipline level, and then it degrade if they live in posh quarters/don't see much trauma. If there is a lack of booze in the fort, they turn into the blubbering fools we are experiencing right now.

Not that I'm complaining, it's kind of funny. Not very dwarfy, but funny, in a killer carp way. Somehow, dwarves have turned into the very elves they hate for a few generations. Scared of the trees' retaliation, and scared of anything that even resembles blood or could possibly be dangerous. Eventually Toady will get it straightened out and dwarves will have realized the error of their ways and grew their backbones again. Or just think of it as Armok drank a little too much and had a few too many dares. The worlds a little hectic, but once he sobers up and the hangover passes, he'll straighten everything out. Just part of the continuing narrative of Dwarf Fortress. Every new world spawned is the universe being recreated, and each new version adds some variety.
Logged

Gojira1000

  • Bay Watcher
  • Demands a glass bed? Seriously?
    • View Profile
Re: Squemish Doctors
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2014, 03:58:52 pm »

Keep in mind the current "horrified by a corpse" reaction is a modern one, and is generally limited to non-third-world sections of the planet, even now. Your average "civilized" human has never seen a decaying corpse just laying somewhere, which skews our perceptions and has been built into a weird psychosocial taboo concerning death. Dunno that you can argue it should apply to a medieval setting.

Mind you, terrified to witness the slaughter of friends by monsters? Oh yeah, keep that.
Logged
"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit." - Oscar Wilde
Pages: 1 2 [3]