Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Borax should be a flux stone and a soap material  (Read 1355 times)

Jurph

  • Bay Watcher
  • Minister of Belt-fed Weaponry
    • View Profile
Borax should be a flux stone and a soap material
« on: July 18, 2014, 08:30:54 am »

Borax now occurs near rock salt in desert biomes (and possibly other places as well).  The [Wikipedia article on borax](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax) suggests that it could be used in pottery glazing and soap-making as well as in metallurgy (as a flux stone).  It would be great to have a reaction at the soap-maker's workshop that allowed you to substitute borax for part of the tallow-soap process (probably in place of the lye). 

Logged
Dreambrother has my original hammer-shaped Great Hall.  Towerweak has taken the idea to the next level.

GavJ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Borax should be a flux stone and a soap material
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 11:46:48 am »

Flux is not flux is not flux for every metal, ever.

Different metals require different types of flux, which are usually mutually exclusive. For example, iron compounds usually use calcium compounds as flux (like limestone), whereas copper compounds use iron ores or silicates as flux, which won't work for iron (clearly iron ore isn't a flux for iron ore!).

Borax is used as a flux, but mainly only for gold refining, not for iron. As a sodium compound, it might also work as a glass flux, too. I might be wrong about this, maybe it CAN be used for iron, dunno. But if so, you should want some solid sources for this being used in smelting. Also note that you can add it as a flux if you want in the meantime by just adding [REACTION_CLASS:FLUX] to the raws for borax.



The game for playability simplifies "flux" to only refer to "iron fluxes" and just ignores the usage of different fluxes for other metals, to make the game less confusing and easier to learn. Also to make steel feel more special and harder to obtain.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 11:49:32 am by GavJ »
Logged
Cauliflower Labs – Geologically realistic world generator devblog

Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

Shazbot

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Borax should be a flux stone and a soap material
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 12:38:46 pm »

I can think of nothing dwarfier than scrubbing your clothes clean with a bar of boron-rich minerals. It should just be soap, pure and simple.

Regarding flux, it is a forge-welding flux for ironworking, although not a 1300's technology as far as I know.
Logged

GavJ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Borax should be a flux stone and a soap material
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2014, 12:55:00 pm »

smelting and welding fluxes are different. Their qualities overlap a little bit, but not the most important qualities. Smelting fluxes bind slightly different sets of chemicals (including impurities other than the target metal's oxides are most important) and serve a larger role of increasing the flow of slag so that it forms better separable layers in a furnace. Welding fluxes are usually more about eliminating the oxides on the surface of the actual metal being welded (versus other impurities) and protecting against further oxidation by creating a reducing environment, so that there isn't a skin on the metals at the moment of being welded.

Welding fluxes can also be minimized in importance by technique more than smelting fluxes -- if you heat your to-be-welded metal pieces in a reducing fire, you won't get oxide skins either (by holding back on the amount of airflow during pre-welding heating), and by shaping your weld joints in such a way that they can be positioned for the first hammer blow without resting directly on the anvil (which would cool them off), you can decrease exposure to oxygen just prior to welding to also inhibit oxide skins.

I could see something along the lines of borax working similar to fertilizer, though. Like having borax available at your forge can optionally lead to higher chances of higher quality finished goods made by otherwise equally skilled smiths.

Logged
Cauliflower Labs – Geologically realistic world generator devblog

Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.