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Author Topic: Surviving first winter  (Read 2736 times)

Deadrefridgerator

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Surviving first winter
« on: March 05, 2014, 09:25:21 pm »

So, I'm a super new player.  With lots of instruction, I managed to make a semi-functioning fortress, and was almost on my way actually lasting a little when the season changed.  All of the water sources froze and my dwarves started dying of dehydration.  It was honestly pretty brutal, there were corpses everywhere because I hadn't thought about burying them and I couldn't figure out how to keep any of them alive.  I guess your first fortress disintegrating is kind of a rite of passage.

But how am I actually supposed to live through that?  Is there a way to get a source of water that your dwarves can drink that won't freeze?  Also, are dwarves adversely affected by the cold, and is there a way to deal with that?

I was in a temperate region, with no rivers or aquafiers, just a few pools.
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Lich180

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 09:34:54 pm »

What happened to your booze supply? Usually dwarves only drink water when they have no other options, or are laid up in the hospital /laying in bed injured.

A few farm plots churning out plump helmets and a still with access to wooden barrels (carpenter workshop) or rock pots (craftdwarf workshop) should be enough to at least get by if your water sources freeze.

Then if you want a good, non freezing water source, an underground reservoir is your best bet for a well.
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Arcvasti

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 09:39:22 pm »

Plump helmets and rock pots and a brewer work pretty well. Dwarves prefer alchohol to water. Indoor wells are difficult to make for new players, so that might not be the best idea. If you're just getting the hang of the game, I would advise starting in a warm region and bringing a bunch of alchohol with you at embark.
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Deadrefridgerator

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 09:50:26 pm »

Kay, so lots of booze.  I think I'd run out, and my farmers growing plump helmets were all dead.

Cold isn't really an issue, then?
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mosshadow

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 11:36:03 pm »

You can ask them to gather Plants and brew those into booze. I run into the no booze problem many times because Im pretty bad at looking at those stocks. The danger is that you dont notice until winter where the dwarves start telling you that they have been drinking water because they ran out of booze
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 12:00:34 am »

You can guarantee that water will not freeze over if you cover it with a floor tile, so you could have a water hut for the winter.

Skuggen

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 02:15:40 am »

I remember my first attempt at a freezing biome failed because I forgot to move the booze I'd brought inside, was too slow finding another source, and didn't notice they'd stopped drinking because it was all frozen.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 02:22:49 am »

Afaik cold is only an issue in really really cold biomes, such as glaciers and tundras. I haven't actually tried embarking there myself but that's what I've gathered from the wiki anyhow :>
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 03:08:26 am »

My first fort went much the same way. Picking stuff for my embark, I was all, "What's with all this alcohol? Whatever, I don't need it, there's a stream on-site, and we can drink that." That worked, for a while, although I was puzzled why the empty barrels we'd left outside were not collecting rainwater. Then winter hit, the stream froze, and the dwarves started getting thirsty. I was saying, "Dudes, there's like a foot of snow on the ground RIGHT OUTSIDE, just melt that & drink it," at the computer screen. Didn't work so well.

Long story short, forget about water. It doesn't do what you think it does. You can't get it from rain, snow, or ice, but you don't need it at all to brew booze, so ironically you're far more likely to die of thirst on a glacier than in a desert.

On the plus side, that first fort of mine was what really sold me on Dwarf Fortress. Sure, my little guys started dying, but that was to be expected. It was the sudden realization that the game was actually tracking the cloud of stench from the rotting Clothier that really impressed me.

I haven't played in any very cold locations, but from what I've heard, cold itself is not a real danger. What you need to look out for, however, is temperatures near zero. Dwarves will happily walk across a frozen body of water without a second (or even first) thought, which is quite all right because it's perfectly safe . . . unless it thaws and your dwarf is suddenly drowning & being pulled toward the waterfall. The autumn can be even more lethal, because due to the mechanics of the game, when water freezes, even a single 1/7th puddle of water will instantly fill the entire tile with ice. I have literally had dwarves die instantly simply because they happened to be walking across wet ground when a cold front hit.
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WanderingKid

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 03:22:34 am »

You can guarantee that water will not freeze over if you cover it with a floor tile, so you could have a water hut for the winter.

This is inaccurate.  Any tile, once outdoors, stays outdoors.  Any outdoor tile in a freezing biome will freeze water.

You need to move that water into an underground tile to avoid freezing (or have a magma pipe near it... that's a whole different story).

Alcohol is your answer, though, Dead.  Plump helmets -> booze is your best way to keep your drunken beards happy.  Rock pots are easy to make, and just start farming on arrival and make sure you've got a nice supply of food.  Mass produce booze and meals for winter.

Dirst

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 10:01:38 am »

One other thing to remember is that booze is stored in barrels.  One "stack" of booze (the output of one Still run) fits in there, which is several drinks.  However, when a Dwarf goes off to take a drink, he/she grabs the entire barrel and keeps it until done.  You can make mugs in a Craftdrawf's Workshop, but it doesn't matter.  They ignore the mugs and take the barrels.

Therefore, the stock screen can be a bit misleading.  It might look like you have plenty of drinks, but if several Dwarves are trying to drink at the same time, some will see no available barrels and go for the water.  A young fort simply can not have too many barrels of booze.
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Larix

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2014, 10:40:28 am »

If you go for an early military build-up, giving your soldiers waterskins and setting 'u'-supplies to "carry any drink" reduces booze management problems - a waterskin will hold three units of drink, which will be consumed instantly (instead of the ~3 days a drink from a barrel takes) and obviously doesn't block a barrel during drinking. It should reduce the happiness a dwarf gets from having a nice drink, though, but that cost is pretty low compared to the time saved. I often put workers with important jobs in a token squad just so they can carry waterskins and don't waste ~10% of their lifetime standing around juggling a beer pot.

As far as the original post goes, +1 to "don't rely on water to keep your beards hydrated". It's a bummer when you find this out by all your watering holes freezing over and condemning your poor minions to a terrible parched death. An _underground_ cistern with well is a vital part of a fort in a temperate or colder biome, but that's not really obvious from embarking.

@below: booze has a freezing temperature much lower than that of water. Its melting point is 9850 urist compared to 10.000 for water, so ~ -83°C? (plant_alcohol_template in material_template_default.txt) Keep in mind that most organic materials have a "cold damage point" of 9900 urist - if it's cold enough that alcohol freezes, it's also cold enough that the barrels, the wagon, animals' feet and dwarfs' shoes will take damage and eventually fall apart from touching the ground. It's not instant, and if you get your stuff underground before it falls apart, you can still plant those XXplump helmet spawnsXX and they'll germinate and grow normally.

Such temperatures are very rare (if they exist at all) in normally generated worlds, you usually have to go and lower minimum temperatures in world generation if you want a murderously freezing embark. Conversely, getting hot enough to harm dwarfs is potentially much easier, because fat tissue has a "melting point" of 10 078 urist, ~43°C.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 11:57:42 am by Larix »
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smjjames

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2014, 11:03:42 am »

I would have reccommended starting your first fort in a place where it doesn't freeze in the winter, but I guess you're brave enough to give it a shot.

As for your booze 'freezing', shouldn't it only freeze in very low temperatures like if you were on a glacier?

And yeah your first fort disintegrating is a right of passage, sort of. Also, be sure to check out the wiki, lots of information there, but don't hesitate to ask on the forum if you need help with something :) As good as the wiki is, things can still be confusing.
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Khorinis

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Re: Surviving first winter
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2014, 05:18:46 pm »

Just dig deep enough til you find a cavern filled with water.
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