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Author Topic: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking  (Read 3003 times)

Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2014, 04:29:59 pm »

Personally I think it would have to take a few more things into consideration than just current unhappiness. For one, it would have to depends heavily on whether the dwarf blames his unhappiness on the fortress or not. Take for instance an elderly dwarven couple who were both content up until one of them dies of old age. The surviving spouse might end up thoroughly unhappy, but it wouldn't really make sense for him/her to pack up his belongings and leave because of it.

It'd also be really boring if all of a sudden dwarves start leaving before you have a chance to fix the issue at hand, a notion Toady has expressed as well. In my opinion emigration should only occur when you've had many recurring tragedies strike the fort or there's lasting misery that never improves, possibly with a few exceptions where emigration makes more sense.

Another necessity would be some sort of notification if things start to go bad, for example a pop-up saying "Some of your dwarves are considering leaving the fortress if conditions don't improve soon!".

Now how plausible it is to realistically track the reasons for unhappiness and whether emigration is a proper response is another matter. I have faith in the Great Toad that he'd succeed if he so wishes.
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shadowclasper

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2014, 06:38:48 pm »

well I imagine that what could cause it is if certain thoughts aren't flagging regularly enough, and if other thoughts are flagging regularly.

Going to jail might increase the likelihood they'll emmigrate.

Having too much noise. Encountering too many monsters. Too much miasma breathing.

Quality foods, furniture, etc. would all counter balance this.
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nwob

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2014, 10:00:50 am »

Ideally you'd also have to take into account where else there is to go.
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red_kangaroo

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2014, 01:08:44 pm »

Another necessity would be some sort of notification if things start to go bad, for example a pop-up saying "Some of your dwarves are considering leaving the fortress if conditions don't improve soon!".

Now imagine that you give a much better room to some dwarves ready to leave your fortress. Suddenly, all your dwarves (or at least those with Liar skill) would pretend to be considering to leave just to get better apartments, meals or anything. And not giving them better rooms would only result in them being angry and possibly they could start bullying the previously upset dwarves who were appeased by the better rooms, until the bullied dwarves would get upset again and would leave eventually while the bullying dwarves would be still angry and unhappy from not gaining better rooms through their guile.

And the only result of your attempt to stop unhappiness-emigration would be several Novice Bullies.
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Treefingers

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2014, 12:05:56 am »

Another reason to leave might be fear of harm or discovery. If a not-so-courageous dwarf is up for a hammering, maybe they'll try to bug out before being dragged off for punishment. Some vampires might find it preferable to disappear after being discovered, rather than face dwarven wrath (which is admittedly pretty wimpy toward vampires unless the player joins in). So once there's some code in place for leaving the fort and why, it could be extended in a few other ways.
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Nopenope

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2014, 07:44:52 am »

You should probably check this out
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Treefingers

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2014, 02:17:26 am »

That was timely. Thanks for the tip! I like that kind of streamlined plugin. Does one thing. Use it or don't.
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Frango Nicolbidok

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2014, 09:19:17 pm »

I really think that we shouldn't take out tantruming/berzerking, but I also really like your idea, so I think both would be great to have.

However, if this option were a choice, I feel more dwarves should just emigrate out rather than go insane, because that would really bring out differences in personality.

For example, those who are easy to anger or sadden would be more likely to go insane, while those who are not would be more likely to simply just leave, and I find that more dwarves statistically would be more calm-mannered.

Now, if you've been depriving of alcohol... That would probably boost up the chance of insanity by a bit.

Additionally, with the past couple Toady One posts...
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Today's success was to have a crying mother spit on me and call me a murderer, so that's where we're at.
and
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People now process seeing bodies not just as entity-level rumors, or evidence of crimes, but versus their own personal understanding of the person, so they can have their emotional breakdowns and so on. I led one party member into a room where rested a dead relative, and they fell to the ground crying...
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So you could throw a head into a room to freak people out

People who have witnessed more horrific sights or events, or have been subject to dealing with things they are afraid of, would also be more likely to go crazy.
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Chaos17

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2014, 04:44:47 am »

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People who have witnessed more horrific sights or events, or have been subject to dealing with things they are afraid of, would also be more likely to go crazy.
That's logical but I had 2 death so far and they were all abut my dwarves going crazy and that was sad because I couldn't do a thing while the game offer so many options. I was expecting to be able to have a Psychiatrist at least.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 05:56:52 am »

The mayor or the expedition leader can meet with workers, getting either cried on or yelled at. Depending on the noble's skills, the complaining dwarf can go away feeling better or worse. Both of those positions have other responsibilities and aren't directly chosen by the player, so you could mod in a new noble position that fixes those two issues.

Unfortunately, Conduct / Attend Meeting is a really low-priority job, and that can't be modded.
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Trainzack

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2014, 09:13:50 pm »

What about forced emigration? Like, deportation as a punishment (depending on the civ's ethics).

Also, I could see grown children emigrating sometimes. Like, to seek their fortunes in the frontiers or somesuch.

Frango Nicolbidok

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2014, 11:45:45 pm »

I wouldn't mind Dwarven Children leaving after they are sentient enough. They're always depressed anyway when they realize they're completely nude and honestly I don't really want to make clothes for them anyway :P
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Chaos17

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Re: Unhappy dwarves should migrate out instead of tantruming/berzerking
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2014, 04:40:23 am »

So far, most of my dead dwarves died because of becoming crazing not because of getting older  :-[
So yeah, I wish for that option but without waiting for a caravan (like in the plugin) to come because they never "met".
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 04:42:03 am by Chaos17 »
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