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[CursedBurger]

This can of course vary, but in general never taking breaks from coding will not make a programmer more efficient. Over time it will have the opposite effect.

Agreed. I'd say best thing we can do is ensure Toady has money for a vacation now and then.

[Trojanhamster]

Being someone who programs both professionally and as a hobby, I can say that burnout can be a serious issue if you just code a project non-stop unless you're hitting significantly awesome milestones on a regular basis. Forum interactions and other community engagement are probably a huge energizer for Toady and a great reminder for what an amazing creation he has made that has brought all these people together.

I can also sympathize with not wanting to bring other people into the project. Even if there were parts he felt he'd rather not do himself, there is a lot of risk bringing another person in on something like this, especially if they're volunteering their time rather than being a paid worker. If someone builds a significant piece of your code in a way you aren't entirely familiar with and then gets burned out once the bug reports start rolling in, it's suddenly back to you to correct it and now you're dealing with code that may be a nightmare to parse through. On top of that, the second someone else is involved you're no longer just a programmer/game designer, now you're a manager too, and managing volunteers can end up taking more effort than just coding something yourself (especially if you suck at managing like me). Given how this is Toady's life work I can completely understand him being cautious and protective of it.

All that said, I'm totally chomping at the bit for the new release 

[WJLIII3]

The obvious advantage being that eventually we'd have a more friendly UI, made and maintained by some team of brave coders and artists, which would be nice.

The less obvious disadvantage being that it wouldn't help toady at all, rather just burden him with even more work. He'd still need to maintain some form of UI in DF, for development and new releases, and on top of it maintain the API for fan-made UI.

On one hand, we'd get more streamlined ways of controlling our dwarves, which would likely be nicer than anything Toady will produce in the next decade, on the other the original UI might fall into disuse and through less input and testing would end up being a bug ridden mess we'd all be forced to use whenever an update comes out and the nice UI needs to be updated. Oh, and if that fan project died for whatever reason, everyone would be a lot worse off.

You can't make a UI until the game is done, its just stupid, unless you have a whole team that can keep the visuals apace with baseline differences, and even then, art almost always waits until core gameplay is done. (for reasons that should be obvious).

As an example, let us say Toady is already done. If we had a UI, we would now be in the graphical phase, and today would have to be adjusting it to the new code for months yet. And if you meant "but he could open-source the development," feel free to write your own masterpiece for ten years and then give all of that work away for free to every person on the internet, if that floats your boat. It does not float his. As with the rest of us, his boat won't float without money.

[thvaz]

I think Toady is the only guy in the entire internet who is accused of being greedy or selfish even though he releases games for free.

[Skuggen]

You forget that this is the internet, where meaningless accusations are one of the most polite forms of greeting

[sirdave79]

Yeah im glad The Great One has stayed firm in what hes wanted and how hes gone about things. He is a beacon to independance and a demonstration to all (including plenty of people who use the personally despised kickstarter) of what is possible.

I have recently heard that a person has donated a thousand dollars in the past and the suggestion of what I was reading was that a/some persons might donate more and less depending on toadys needs. Now I am uncertain as to the exactness of the above BUT for a long number of years now toady has worked on this and he has made whatever donations he receives be enough. We are lucky to have someone like toady working on something like dwarf fortress.

There are no doubt times(in my mind) that whatever OCD/burnout/control freak tendancies/lack of interest in UI have an effect(notice I dont necessarily say negative) on toady/the game but its a similar set of factors that make dwarf fortress what it is, keep is loosely speaking free and have maintained the interest.

So, discussion aside, I want dwarf fortress finished tomorrow, with a consistent intuitive and aethetically pleasing UI. However I will not and am not complaining. I await eagerly the next release and then equally eagerly what today plans next.

Bringing other people on board would speed things up but id rather he continues to take his time. Id see dwarf fortress finished in toadys image than compromised. A bloke(and his brother) whos prepared to spend 20-30 years on something this good, to take a low salary in the form of donations and then make jokes about how easily hell be able to make a miving after its finished deserves our patience.

Of course as suggested there will always be people who will talk s**t (not accusing the OP of talking shit or anyone on this thread necessarily) on the internet but people who talk s**t should be ignored. Any other method of dealing with them results in time and efforts wasted.

I havent donated but I recognise that I should have and know that I will at some point. Unfortunately im not rich, so any donation I can make wont make much difference but Ive probably played more dwarf fortress than any other game. Says a lot about other games I think....

[OtaconPliskin]

I love this game, and I respect the HELL out of Toady.
But damn people, the kid's not Jesus Christ. Don't expect too much from him, and don't ask for anything. Dude gave us this game for free. I'm content with what I have.



"Here guys, I made some cake. You guys can have some..I worked really hard on it I hope you like it..tell me how it tastes."
"THIS CAKE IS FUCKING DELICIOUS, BAKE US ANOTHER ONE OR YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A TERRIBLE PERSON"


Edit: Unless he died on his keyboard while coding. Then I suppose he'd be the first official videogame martyr.

[Toady One]

(removed the last few posts, please don't insult each other)

[OtaconPliskin]

(removed the last few posts, please don't insult each other)

Understood. But seriously, do you have any cake?

[Irist GuruNoob]

Being a programmer myself it always surprises me that people always seem to think they know what makes one more efficient.  It doesn't take a programmer to know that everyone is different and different strokes for different folks.  Everyone is most efficient in their own way.

[Ghills]

The obvious advantage being that eventually we'd have a more friendly UI, made and maintained by some team of brave coders and artists, which would be nice.

The less obvious disadvantage being that it wouldn't help toady at all, rather just burden him with even more work. He'd still need to maintain some form of UI in DF, for development and new releases, and on top of it maintain the API for fan-made UI.

On one hand, we'd get more streamlined ways of controlling our dwarves, which would likely be nicer than anything Toady will produce in the next decade, on the other the original UI might fall into disuse and through less input and testing would end up being a bug ridden mess we'd all be forced to use whenever an update comes out and the nice UI needs to be updated. Oh, and if that fan project died for whatever reason, everyone would be a lot worse off.

You can't make a UI until the game is done, its just stupid, unless you have a whole team that can keep the visuals apace with baseline differences, and even then, art almost always waits until core gameplay is done. (for reasons that should be obvious).

As an example, let us say Toady is already done. If we had a UI, we would now be in the graphical phase, and today would have to be adjusting it to the new code for months yet.

Wrong. You obviously don't understand what a UI is. UI = User Interface. Many programs have non-3D interfaces, including many games. DF has a character-based UI.  If it didn't have a UI, it would be a console program. The UI is terrible, inconsistent, and will be a complete and utter pain to rewrite. That has nothing to do with whether or not it uses 3D assets or streamlined visual pieces.

Toady is not a programmer by training, which shows in how he decided to handle the UI. It is much easier to decide on a consistent set of standards and build code to meet those standards than it is to revamp a whole program later.  A bit more design work and upfront saves many hours of rework and testing down the road.