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Author Topic: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo  (Read 964 times)

Humdilla

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College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« on: March 11, 2014, 01:25:27 am »

Hey all! Just wanted to share my opinions about college and see how other people felt about college.

So I'm studying computer science at UMass Amherst and I have to say that college so far (I'm almost done with my sophomore year) is really similar to high school. They make me take classes I do not wish to take (Philosophy, Psychology, Geoscience  which is basically just fucking World News, English which I know is important but my English skills haven't changed in years, no matter how many classes I take. Just let it be dammit!) The courses are super disorganized (I actually think some of my high school classes were better.) Seriously, my exam dates aren't given to me until a few days prior and the projects they have us work on are always flawed so they have to make changes half way through and then just count the project as extra credit even though I spent hours on it (and then there was the project with an almost identical name and outline that I missed because I thought they were the same fucking project  >:( but I guess that's my bad) The majority of the students don't act any different from high school students (Same amount of stupid B.S. Just look at the news. Haven't we got the most mature students out there?  ::))

But college is so much worse than high school. They force you to buy a bunch of books for the classes you aren't really interested in taking (which I refuse to do. I'm not buying your psych book for 70$ when I could really give two shits about psych.) The work load is godawful because of the disorganization and the courses are inconsistent with their structure. Example:

First year of college: Lecture - the class you attend to learn new material.
                         Discussion - the class you attend if you have questions about material learned in discussion

Second year of college: Lecture - the class you attend to learn new material.
                             Discussion - Lecture with a different name and if you don't attend well too bad because now you have a project that requires the info you learned in this class. (WTF?)

Now I have to spend all of my free time looking up things on the internet because I didn't go to discussion.

Also what's with paying the school so you can stick their name on your resume? That's kinda fucked up. I'm getting by in my comp sci classes because I'm finding information on the internet. If I can find this stuff on the internet or in a book, why the hell am I paying for this?

Anyways that's my rant about college. I'm rather stressed right now, so this all probably seems silly and I'm just not in the right mind to realize it. I've got 2 exams in the next 2 days that I was told about today :\ I'd love to read what you guys think about college.

Also don't remind me of how silly I am to be thinking these things. I know. I'll calm down soon enough and laugh at myself. ;D
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gimlet

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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 09:49:29 am »

See if you can test out of the non-major courses that you're not interested in - look at the CLEP pages from ITS and see if your school will take them.  http://clep.collegeboard.org/ My highschool was pretty decent + all the extra reading I did let me test out of about 8-9 courses - that's a TON of time saved, not to mention money.

Also, don't get used to fucking off TOO much, the later courses in your major will almost certainly get harder/have tougher assignments, so recognize when you're starting to fall behind and kick up your game.

For courses like you describe (discussion where they sneak in new material), I'd go to the classes and follow it enough to make sure it's either from the book/class materials, or that I knew where to find the info.  Then I'd work on homework for another class...

And yeah, there's a fair amount of bs and disorganization - but at least that's realistic preparation for most work environments   :P
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BurnedToast

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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 01:42:07 am »

Also what's with paying the school so you can stick their name on your resume? That's kinda fucked up. I'm getting by in my comp sci classes because I'm finding information on the internet. If I can find this stuff on the internet or in a book, why the hell am I paying for this?

http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2729

pretty much sums up my feelings about college.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2014, 02:33:49 pm »

I'd suggest that college, while it might look like high school with all the trappings of classes and teachers and students, is actually different from high school. It's not just High School Part 2. Up until now your education has been paid for by society because we don't want anybody to grow up illiterate, without basic understanding of math and science, and unable to socialize. Now you're paying for your own education (even if eventually, through student loans) and you need to choose where you will specialize. You have the basics down and now you're trying to make your labor worthwhile for some employer.

1: You need to show up for all your scheduled class / lecture / lab / discussion times. Some info will be in the textbook, some from lecture. In my experience you gain a lot from discussion but the parts you're tested on and expected to learn are the lecture bits that frame the discussion. Which means you still need to show up, pay attention, take notes, and participate.

2: You didn't have to buy books before because Uncle Government bought them. Now that you're in the adult world you buy your own books. The same goes for your tuition, lab and material fees, transportation, meals, housing, clothes, etc. If a student is in a position where his family will support him and let him live rent-free while he go to college, he has it a whole lot easier than most students.

3: Yes you can learn stuff online for free. What you're not getting is a formal education, meaning you need to figure out what to learn, what sources to use, how to learn it, what exercises to do to test yourself, and find someone out there to evaluate your performance and suggest improvements. You need to learn a wide variety of these things, not just "computer science". As a programming-specific example, a self-taught programmer must go through a lot of extra work learning standard writing styles or else have more formal programmers he works with be irritated with his work and spend too much time dealing with it.

4: The college degree is definitely something you want to have on your resume. In a way, an employer sees the degree as proof that you were able to stick with your education, that you have certain basic skills, and are ready for job-specific training. It also shows that you're in the right social stratum; for example, if you walk into a boardroom with a PHD you'll be seen as a pompous and useless academic, if you walk in with a Bachelors' you'll be viewed as an underling, and anything lower than that you're carrying the coffee. You need that MBA for the other MBAs to take you seriously (partly because they're so invested in their careers and they know damn well they're a bunch of empty hats desperate to validate their own existence). PHDs are the same way regarding other PHDs. But a college degree isn't enough: you also need to get into internships and volunteering. You might not want to spend the extra time and effort on something that seems like it's not required, but if you don't you'll be screwed.

5: Not every class has a physical textbook. Talk with your professors and program chair about integrating more free materials in the courses and hopefully encourage them to transition into at least cheaper PDF textbooks and hopefully into a fully textbook-free environment. But this is difficult for the professor who must create that material or otherwise assemble it.

6: Courses are all different. Accept this. One course may be all lecture, another mostly labs, yet another will have everyone move their desks into a circle facing the center and be all discussion. Courses also change. Life is turbulent, abrupt. Adapt or perish. Let's say you get a desk job: I guarantee your boss will breeze through and change your whole week suddenly on a Tuesday and you'll need to change gears and get a big project done by end of business that very day. If you can't learn to do, that someone else will, and their ass will fit your office chair just as well as yours did.

Look at your time in college in two ways:

A: This is a time of growth, discovery, exploration. This is the time in your life when you will have maximum freedom. You're an adult, a driver, a voter, perhaps old enough to drink. You get to choose what you will learn. You're finally learning enough about anything to have deep, deep conversations about them and learn from people around you who are learning different things. You have few responsibilities, full liberties, disposable income. You might be living away from home for the first time. Soon you will need to get a steady job, your godlike body will begin to deteriorate with age, and your options will begin to narrow. Right now you have every avenue open to you: seize those opportunities.

B: This is the opposite of retirement: a youthful time of pleasure and freedom after which you repay your childhood of vacation. The bulk of your life will involve labor, productivity. While now you're burgeoning with growth like a sapling, your adulthood will be a strengthening and toughening process. When you're no longer as useful to society you get to retire and, as an old person, enjoy a few years of relaxation. But it will not be like your time in college. Waste it complaining about textbooks at your peril.

EDIT: One more thing: an AA is the new HS diploma. You used to be able to get a decent job with a HS diploma, do some OJT, make yourself useful pretty quickly. The economy is so shitty, employers are getting tons of resumes, and they need to sort out the people who are least qualified just so they can pare down the list. If the job needs a BA, they will probably shred anyone who doesn't have a BA, and might even end up shredding all the BAs because they got a bunch of people with a Masters'. Of course they'll shred the PHDs because they're overqualified: rightfully fearful these employees will jump ship as soon as they get a better offer. With easy student loans, and with people these days getting student loans and going to a community college just for the living expenses because they can't find a job, and destruction of the typical barriers to entry (easy entry testing, high student capacity), and the availability of easy transferable degrees that just about anyone can achieve, tons of people now have Associates' degrees. This combines to mean that if your highest academic credential is a HS diploma, your resume will get shredded for any job where you're working indoors but not wearing a paper hat.

There's a movement of people who want to avoid college. Kids who see their parents half a million underwater on a subprime mortgage and now have a phobia of debt. Kids who are tired of school and just want to start their lives. Kids who think they can break into a good job despite having no academic credentials. Kids who think they can learn whatever without going to college (which is technically true, it's just harder). But the only way I can see this actually working out is if a ton of kids do this, become successful, and then carry that philosophy over to hiring their employees. Which means it's not going to happen within the next 5 years. Also note that the big computer and internet startups founded by uneducated nobodies either had significant financial backing from the parents or got real lucky - and they typically expect top-notch education and experience from their employees today.

Simply put, if nothing else changes your mind, if the personal growth and amazing opportunities don't sway you, remember that for the forseeable future a college degree is required for success and any exceptions are the equivalent of winning the lottery or cheating by starting out with old money.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 02:47:36 pm by LeoLeonardoIII »
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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2014, 03:31:41 pm »

I think I've been lucky with my college experience so far.
My highschool lets it's students take college courses at the local community college. So far, I've gotten to take Trigonometry, Pre-Calculus, Calculus, Mythology, Cultural Anthropology and Micro and Marco Economics. I've gotten a taste of college, without having to pay for it or put my good academic standing on the line, which acted as a nice buffer when I failed Calculus.
As a recommendation to other highschoolers, TAKE COLLEGE CLASSES IF YOU CAN. Not AP or stuff like that, but actual classes with actual college students.

My college application process was probably the worst few months of my life so far. I was taking badly failing Calculus while struggling with the college application process. I'd rather not talk about it.
I've only gotten a single admission decision back from a college so far. I didn't get in, and I was really hoping I might.

To all you highschoolers in your third year, fall will be nasty. Spring will not. It gets better.

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2014, 06:01:24 pm »

You might be able to start taking college classes for college credit. The program around here is called Running Start or something.
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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2014, 06:16:55 pm »

You might be able to start taking college classes for college credit.
That was the combination of words that I meant to use.

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2014, 06:39:35 pm »

Oh cool I thought maybe you were just choosing to take classes at the college instead of at a terribad HS.
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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2014, 06:43:13 pm »

Well, lets be honest, my highschool is kinda terribad. The college classes are the best or second best thing about it.

GlyphGryph

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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 08:09:17 pm »

College is garbage if you go there expecting to be educated.

College is awesome if you go there seeking opportunities and motivations you know you wouldn't be exposed to otherwise, and you're willing to seize them and make the most of it.

College becomes garbage again if you're driven enough that you can effectively make your own opportunities and motivations and you don't mind putting in the legwork. Depending on your field, a degree may actually required, but you'll be able to find lots of opportunities to minimize costs and time investment and go right to the important bits if you make it a priority. And if you're actually capable, you'll avoid a lot of "necessary degree" fields because you realize a large chunk of them are run as scams, and you've got plenty of other opportunities you can seize.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 10:12:06 am by GlyphGryph »
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Knick

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Re: College aka High School 2: Electric Boogaloo
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2014, 10:07:30 am »

I went through the Canadian system, so it may have a different feel.  Here are my thoughts after 15 plus years since completion:

College is awesome.  You have more freedom now then you will ever have again in your life.  You can go to class, or not.  You can get up early, you can get up late.  You can drink all night, you can study all night.  You can try new things.  You can meet new people.  You can learn whatever you want.

College is scary.  See above for why.

Overall, you now have the choice to do what you want, and can be surprised at what you like.  I started as a basic Arts degree, and discovered that I really loved learning about history.  I also loved astronomy.  I was hot-and-cold to my core curriculum, but if I did not have the ability to choose, I never would have taken the Philosophy of Art, or Politics and the Media.

Despite the high-school attitude of people around you, this ain't highschool.  No one gives a rat's ass if you do not show up.  You will have projects and exams, but do not expect anyone to care if you study or slack-they don't.  How well you do is up to you.  No one is forcing you to further your education.  There is no safety net.  So welcome to the adult world!

Second to last thing-yep, classes are all different, professors and instructors ae all different, some are good, some are not.  Goals change without a centrally run curriculum.  Just like the real world.  Go into business, or get a job, or contribute to the world around you and you will find the same thing. 

As for the cost, well. . . there's lots you can do to defray costs, whether by selling your old books or buying used.  But remember--"they" are not making you do anything--you chose it yourself.  Hence, the difference from highschool.

I'd say enjoy yourself.  The BS in college is no different from highschool and matters just as much.  Really.  And the faster you leave behind the highschool BS and hang-ups, the easier it becomes.  I completed a Masters degree in which I was about five to six years older than my average fellow student.  I had been out for several years, and had spent some time working.  There was a world of difference in my attitude towards both learning and college life in general.  Also, I had a very high alcohol tolerance at the time.  I still regard that phase of my life as probably one of the happiest times.

So--good luck.  And please remember--it does get better.   
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