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[Witty]

Marksdwarf Captain: URIST! My beard sense is tingling! There be goblins just beyond this fortification! Get ready for a charge! 

Urist Mcmarksdwarf: But sir! We don't have any melee weapons! We were ordered to remain stationed behind this fortification and shoot the goblins before they can breach the walls! 

Marksdwarf Captain: What are ya, an elf? If ya can't beat a goblin to death with the butt of your wooden crossbow, you ain't worth having in this here army! NOW LETS GO!

Crossbow Squad Has Been Wiped Out! 

And many variations on that.

[Linkxsc]

It just means you need more than just a simple wall. The wall will need a slight outward overhang.

Put some weapon traps on top of it if you are feeling paranoid. (Since they are jumping, they cant dodge the trap on landing!)

Funny thing is that after most of my forts get established (aside from the built straight into a cliff face) I usually build all of my walls 3 thick with tunnels down the center. Then the top is 5 wide with overhangs. though usually I'd only have it 3-4z higher than ground (maybe more if the fort is in a valley)

[Splint]

It will affect me with greater paranoia than normal and I'll field even larger numbers of soldiers to compensate for the combat revamp. Kinda sad soon I won't be able to rely quite so heavily on small elite forces to fight my battles...

[Urist Da Vinci]

I mentioned in the last FotF reply that non-player climbing and jumping were still open questions and that I'd have to try them out before I knew how much we'd have this time around. That was today's project, and it looks we'll be having them both. This includes dwarf mode, so you might have to rethink certain defensive decisions you've been making. I haven't done anything with the strategic thinking of critters, but if they get within about 20 tiles of a target, they can formulate paths that include climbs and horizontal jumps through one air tile to a walkable tile, and they'll also use these forms of movement in limited non-combat situations. Longer jumps aren't yet possible for them, since it is harder to code running starts into the pathing routine, and they don't understand how to jump and then hang onto surface. It's a weakness you can exploit, but they still hop around and cause trouble enough to delight and entertain.

1. Defense against climbing: Wall smoothness and construction materials do matter now. A tree next to your wall may allow easier climbing or a jump to the top of the wall.

2. Defense against jumping: 2+ tile wide gaps.

3. Defense against stealth: Floor type matters now, so it will be easy for ambushers to get close if they are near trees or on grass. Open flat paved areas with guards should make stealth very hard.

[misko27]

Hey wait guys. I'm not sure under what circumstances dwarves jump, and he said they are somewhat limited in non-combat. I think it's safe to say they'll do it if they are stuck (perhaps no longer shall we have problems when a single dwarf manages to get himself stranded in a hole or something), but they don't path over them otherwise.

So much misinformation. No nerfed traps people; Traps are still hilarious. Smoothed walls are useful walls, but two tile high walls are even better.

Plus now we can abuse the hell out of the mechanics. Build a 2 tile high wall, with a small section being only 1 tile high. Build traps in front of, around, and behind the section. They will go to it like lemmings (as is usual).

[Tomsod]

The fortress defense, not much. I usually secure my fort against flying creatures as well, and it doesn't look like climbing will take you further than flight, so I'm still safe. On the other side, dwarves will no longer be stupidly stuck while building and digging. So it's only good for me.

Plus now we can abuse the hell out of the mechanics. Build a 2 tile high wall, with a small section being only 1 tile high. Build traps in front of, around, and behind the section. They will go to it like lemmings (as is usual).

We can also make fortress entrances with a bridged one-tile-long gap. At alarm, bridge is retracted and the empty space is filled with flying lead minecarts. It will be Dwarven Air Defense.

[Simca]

From the sounds of it:

|    A 1z wall would prevent neither climbing or jumping.

|
|    A 2z wall would prevent jumping but not climbing.

 _
|    A 1z wall with an overhanging floor tile would prevent climbing but not jumping.

 _
|
|    A 2z wall with an overhanging floor tile would prevent climbing AND jumping.


Is this right?

[itg]

My understanding was that creatures only jump horizontally, not vertically, or at least they only consider paths with one-tile horizontal jumps.

[Putnam]

Depending on how rawified it is... hmm. What could I do?

Spring-Spring fruit. Roc's Feather.

[assasin]

Personall I never make my moats one tile wide. I'm more worried about climbing. Though that probably could be solved with a small overhang in the moat or something.Though climbing around moats might be a problem as I general place them within my mountain entrance

[Broken]

I will start to make Fortresses that need Jumping and Climbing to explore, then post them there for adventurers to enjoy.

[coldmonkey]

Depends rather heavily on whether jumping and climbing can fail and send the clumsy acrobat hurtling down towards impact death. If so, I'll build great obstacle courses to make sure that only the worthiest of invaders reach the fortress, or rather the big amphitheatre I'm going to build to house the games.

[Monk321654]

I'm just waiting for someone to jump a foot into the air, then come back down on their skull.
This'll be fun.

[cyberTripping]

The rabbit jumps! The flying rabbit strikes Urist McUnfortunate in the skull, jamming the skull through the brain and tearing the brain through the -llama wool cap-! Catten McHusband is tantruming!

[Button]

It'll definitely change my fort design. I tend to build into mountains and just remove the ramps from the first level, so I'll have to start building moats as well.

I may have to create a sadistic "try to climb out and die" trap, also. Pressure plate at the bottom of a oubliette; trap is armed by placing a goblin inside, and when the goblin tries to climb out, the pressure drops and the magma is released! Mwa ha ha!