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Author Topic: What is the world needed for?  (Read 2114 times)

laurief

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What is the world needed for?
« on: December 23, 2013, 10:51:22 am »

Hi all.
I'm really new to DF. I started play(reading the wiki mostly) few days ago and came up with a stupid question as my first post.
What the hell is the game world is needed for? I mean you gonna end build a fortress in a small local map anyways so what's the use of the rest of it?
I understand that biome's parameters depend on the embark location we choose but can't we just set those parameters and start playing?

Please people clear this up for me coz I'm feeling that I'm missing  something (big time).  :-[

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Draco18s

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 11:12:12 am »

Well, you can also play in adventure mode, which uses the world more.  But Future plans include having armies wander around the map during Fortress play, and other off-site stuff.

The world also matters for what invaders and merchants you get and a handful of other details.

You're right that a lot of things aren't important for Fortress mode right now, but it'll become more important over time.
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Silver Echo

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2013, 11:13:44 am »

What you're probably missing is that the game's concept isn't really 'build a fortress', although that is a reasonable assumption to have made. The actual concept for Dwarf Fortress is closer to 'Fantasy World Simulator', and 'build a fortress' is just one of the major ways of interacting with it. You might notice that there is also Adventurer Mode, where you can even visit former fortresses you've tried to make, as well as the rest of the world.

Part of the point of having a complete world is that you can potentially see what kind of effect your actions have caused to the rest of the world. Making a fortress with a world that doesn't exist outside of your map wouldn't really accomplish that.
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armeggedonCounselor

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 12:25:40 pm »

The world also has a huge effect on your fortress. It's entirely possible, for example, to generate a world where every civilized race is in decline or extinct. How world gen goes determines what megabeasts appear at your fortress, how strong they are, and whether or not they are notable enough for your dwarfs to engrave their visage on your fortress walls. World gen creates the background to your fortress' story. In fact, sometimes the story of world gen is much more impressive than anything the player can create. Take, for example, the story of Tholtig Cryptbrain the Waning Diamonds. The last queen of Bronze Orbs, she led her dwarfs into glorious combat against the filthy elves. In the end, she was the only dwarf to survive the war. Many attempts were made by the elves to storm the grand halls of Circletowers, where her throne sat deep beneath the mountain. Every attempt was rebuffed by the warrior-queen, who single-handedly defended Circletowers for ten years, before finally dying alone beneath that mountain. She died of old age, seated on her throne. It was never taken from her as long as she lived.

There's some embellishing to that tale, of course, but the point I'm trying to make is that world generation is what makes an otherwise fairly average convoluted management simulator, and makes it into an epic fantasy game. And, with the coming release, world generation is going to matter even more, because it sets up how the world will advance and change as you play. If the humans and the elves are having a big kerfuffle over the treatment of the Elves' marijuana patch, you might get refugees from a human civilization showing up on your doorstep. Or maybe some Elven diplomat makes one too many short jokes at your king's expense, and he launches a war against the tall, impertinent bastards. The second one, I don't know if it will be in this next release. But I imagine Toady would want something like that in the final game. The political machinations of far away cities always seem to come back to bite the outlying villages in fantasy stories.
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BigD145

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 12:39:44 pm »

You certainly are quite new. Play for a few more months or a year and come back and see if you have the same question. Don't expect the game to show you everything in just a couple days.
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Mesa

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2013, 01:29:24 pm »

Soon enough you'll realize that everything in this game has a purpose. Except for the cheesemakers. Everyone knows those guys are just there to slack off and use their "profession" as an excuse for work, or lack thereof.
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Draco18s

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2013, 01:45:15 pm »

Soon enough you'll realize that everything in this game has a purpose. Except for the cheesemakers. Everyone knows those guys are just there to slack off and use their "profession" as an excuse for work, or lack thereof.

I'd say the farmer profession is even more of an excuse to slack off.  Farming in DF takes almost no effort!  Sure, you can't atomsmash your farmers and survive, like you can with cheesemakers, but god forbid if you try and give them another job.
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Sutremaine

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2013, 03:40:55 pm »

Dwarves-who-make-cheese are pretty useful for turning milk into cold hard dorfbux, but turning up to the fortress specialising in it is a bit too focused for most dwarves. A leatherworker, glassworker, and carpenter can between them make a ton of different things, and a skilled glassmaker can create infinite masterwork serrated discs using only a tile of sand and a tile of magma. A cheesemaker? You get cheese. I hope you like cheese.

What's the minimum value boost you can get from turning milk into biscuits? Let's see, ten units of milk are worth 10db. Those are made into two stacks of cheese(5), each of which is worth 50db. Those are taken to the kitchen, where they are made into 10 biscuits, which are worth... 560db at least? That does seem like a lot...
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2013, 09:46:30 am »

Cheese makers become often the the general herders in my forts. They learn milking, pick eggs and shear the goats all minor tasks but together enough for 2 or 3 dorfs even with small herds. Also Cheeses and eggs are helpfull for quality dinners making your dorfs happy.

The world often gives you reason and motivation for your dorfs, backstories and so on. Same for the monsters and armies that visit you. If nothing else it gives you an consistant "out there" which gives meaning to your fort.

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fractalman

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2013, 02:27:46 pm »

due to the way Dwarf Fortress is coded...without the rest of the world:
no traders
no goblins
no elves to use as either garbage haulers or target practice
no immigrants except the first two waves
A lot less FUN. 

-though for all I know, there's either an old version or a modded version that just goes straight into an embark and abstracts out everything else without the expansive history.   
p.s. use 'tiny world' in world-gen options and end world gen soonish.  just don't kill off too many dwarves for projects, a short world-gen means a small dwarven civ to supply your fort with redshirts. 
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Knight Otu

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2013, 05:46:04 pm »

What isn't the world needed for?

The world determines your trading partners and invaders. It determines everyone's resources and trade goods. It determines cultural genetics, even for the ex nihilo embark dwarves and adventurers, and the wildlife in your embark regions. It makes  the difference between bringing crundle meat and/or elk bird meat. It determines art images and statues. Honestly, I cannot think of many aspects where the world is irrelevant. Constructions and hardcoded buildings, I guess.
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laurief

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Re: What is the world needed for?
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2013, 06:00:28 am »

Thanks a lot for the answers guys. I was aware (and admire) of the world/history generation thingy but wanted to know there is any actual interaction with the fortress except the biome setting.
Glad there is some. Looking forward for more.  :)
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