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Author Topic: Water Pressure  (Read 608 times)

dleave

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Water Pressure
« on: December 04, 2013, 11:21:46 pm »

I've built a well that is not filling, and from everything I read, it seems like it should be.  I built a well 4 z-levels deep, but only 2 filled and then it stopped.  The top level of my well is on z-level 142, and I've channeled up to a brook on the surface, which is z-level 148.  My channel is a straight shot to the brook - no u-turns or diagonals - and the door that I built to allow/block water flow, is still open. 
I did build a grate (that I now know from reading to be worthless :P) in the channel if that matters.

I realize I can still make a functional well out of this, but I'm just wondering if I'm missing something about water pressure, or if this is possibly a bug or what?
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MetalRocks

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 01:56:18 am »

did you link the door to a lever? Where is the water interrupting?
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KroganElite

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 01:56:58 am »

It will help if you post screenshots or make some sort of visual representation.
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Skuggen

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 02:40:11 am »

Does the water flow diagonally at any point on the level where it's stopping?

edit: I should learn to read. Nevermind :)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 02:42:02 am by Skuggen »
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Garath

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 05:07:21 am »

from what you describe, it should work. The fact that it doesn't means, well, it doesn't and you're missing something. Asking you what you're missing isn't going to get us far. Is the whole tunnel filled with water? I've had some trouble with trees growing in weird places and blocking water flow, you could check on that.
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Raphite1

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 12:51:08 pm »

In my current fort, I have a well fed by an underground lake. In the crude diagram below, the WWWW on the left is the lake, which touches the map edge. The left TTT is a tunnel on the same Z level as the water in the lake. My tunnel drops down a Z-level, and feeds water into the well, which is represented by the WWWW on the right.

WWWWTTTTTTTTT
                         TTTTTTTTTTWWWW

The water in the well does NOT rise to the same Z level as the lake. I assumed it didn't rise further because of the "Undammed River" pressure paradigm described on the wiki: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Pressure

This is a bit odd, though, since the underground lake isn't really "flowing off the map" - it seems like it would behave more like an ocean, which apparently triggers the "Dammed River" paradigm described on the same wiki page.

Could someone do a test with more than one Z-level of difference (which is what the OP seems to be using), to confirm that water pressure isn't bugged in the current version?

Larix

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2013, 02:29:52 pm »

Lakes and oceans by themselves do not exert pressure. The article actually says that in one of the first paragraphs:
Quote from: wiki
The following types of liquid movement follow the rules of pressure:
Water falling downward into more water
River/brook source tiles (whether the map edge or the "delta" where the river itself begins) generating water
* Lakes (surface or subterranean), oceans, and the magma sea refilling from the map edge do not exhibit pressure

Oceans and lakes function as dams for rivers flowing into them (i.e. they block the rivers' flow off the map). The lake/ocean itself isn't flowing anywhere; if water is taken from it, it will re-fill without pressure from the edges.

Your example seems to fit with the explanation of water behaviour on the wiki - when water is forced down a z-level with solid ceiling above on the level where it originated, the target level becomes the one the water "falls into". Going through several such steps should allow adjusting the filling mark down several z-levels.
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Raphite1

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2013, 02:41:31 pm »

Wait wait... so water from the ocean (or a subterranean lake) would act like magma in "Diagram A" (under "Magma in a U-bend") on the wiki page?

Quietust

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2013, 03:49:17 pm »

No, it would not.

The "lake/ocean" bit there is for water flowing onto the map - while water entering the map from a river will exert pressure, water entering the map from a lake/ocean will not. If the water goes down a Z-level, it doesn't matter where it came from.
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

dleave

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2013, 03:49:39 pm »

Ok, so I have pics, but I really don't want to know if my well is actually bad design and will flood my fortress or if it's way too big, or way too small, or anything like that please!  I only want to know why the water isn't rising the last 2 levels.

This first one is a picture of the brook that is my water source and the hole I channeled out to drain it into my well, z-level 147:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next level down, z146, and my next 7 levels down look exactly the same, and they line up in a straight line. No diagonals:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You get down to z138 and my channel begins.  Above the yellow X is a rhyolite wall grate if that matters for some reason:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The next section of channel:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And the end of my channel and the opening into the well.  Above the yellow X is an open (i'm assuming?) door, connected to a lever above. The unfilled chamber next door is just my overflow:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Z139, the next level up:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And then my last 2 levels up, z140 and 141, that I expected to fill, but did not:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Quietust

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 03:53:01 pm »

From what I recall, river water prefers to flow off the edge of the map, though it should still flow up to 1 level beneath the river itself.

Read this for more information on how water behaves.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 03:59:43 pm by Quietust »
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P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

dleave

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Re: Water Pressure
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 04:03:20 pm »

Ah, great post.  Thanks much.
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