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[catacombs]

.

[Culise]

I like playing Hearts of Iron 4, but its not even the most complex Hearts of Iron game, much less one of the most complex RTS games.

Interesting. What's a more-complex RTS game than Ho4? I found EU4 and CK2 easier to learn.

Wargame: Red Dragon? Maybe. Very different genre though.

Harpoon's also rather a gimme off the top of my head, though that's likely a bit of an unfair comparison.

[Persus13]

I like playing Hearts of Iron 4, but its not even the most complex Hearts of Iron game, much less one of the most complex RTS games.

Interesting. What's a more-complex RTS game than Ho4? I found EU4 and CK2 easier to learn.

Personally, I found Hearts of Iron III to be more complex and less intuitive than 4, enough that I could barely get into it, while 4 was a lot easier for me to understand and play.

[FAA]

Hearts of Iron III isn’t great without mods and Black ICE can be quite unbalanced. IV is much better.

[George_Chickens]

HOI3 is fine without mods if you are looking for complexity, as it's easily more complex than any other game in the series. Mind you, it's not great, because it is clunky and very prone to crashing and corrupting your saves. I wouldn't call any Paradox game "Dwarf Fortress complexity", but HoI3 comes the closest.

HoI 4 is wide as a shot glass and as shallow as a puddle, even with the DLCs, so I don't really think it's what the OP is looking for. It is also missing a fair amount of features from prior titles, which reduces the complexity further.

On the topic of the grand strategy genre, Revolution Under Siege Gold is easily one of the most complex I've played. It tracks ammo and the distance your soldiers fire at, for example. I'm not going to list all of the features because there are tons upon tons. The only real problem is it's an AGEOD game and the engine very obviously cannot handle something of its size, so it's laggy and crashy from time to time.

You may also be interested in other AGEOD games. I have heard people complain that Victoria 2 is too shallow and not realistic enough, and all of them have praised Pride of Nations. I haven't played it for more than half an hour, but it seemed to be extremely complex, and didn't seem to be falling apart as bad as most other AGEOD games.

[Persus13]

I think you guys both missed that the last post here was about 6 months old.

And George's post is pretty accurate. I like playing Hearts of Iron IV btter, but III is far more complex. And at the end of the day, there are far more complex games in that genre.

[Showbiz]

I'd also second JA2 as a great one.

JA 2 with the Mod 1.13 is one of the greatest games of all time.

[FAA]

I'd also second JA2 as a great one.

JA 2 with the Mod 1.13 is one of the greatest games of all time.

There is a bit too much micromanagement for my taste, though. Wound management is awful and it’s hard to tell what’s happening, too.

[Greenbane]

I like playing Hearts of Iron 4, but its not even the most complex Hearts of Iron game, much less one of the most complex RTS games.

Interesting. What's a more-complex RTS game than Ho4? I found EU4 and CK2 easier to learn.

Wargame: Red Dragon? Maybe. Very different genre though.

Harpoon's also rather a gimme off the top of my head, though that's likely a bit of an unfair comparison.

I know this is an old post, but the modern successor to Harpoon is the recently released Command Modern Operations (CMO). It's currently on Steam, and itself a successor of Command Modern Air & Naval Operations (CMANO), which had been out for a few years. Rather pricey, but it's pretty good.

[FAA]

I like playing Hearts of Iron 4, but its not even the most complex Hearts of Iron game, much less one of the most complex RTS games.

Interesting. What's a more-complex RTS game than Ho4? I found EU4 and CK2 easier to learn.

Wargame: Red Dragon? Maybe. Very different genre though.

Harpoon's also rather a gimme off the top of my head, though that's likely a bit of an unfair comparison.

I know this is an old post, but the modern successor to Harpoon is the recently released Command Modern Operations (CMO). It's currently on Steam, and itself a successor of Command Modern Air & Naval Operations (CMANO), which had been out for a few years. Rather pricey, but it's pretty good.

Hear, hear, a great game.

[Trolldefender99]

I like playing Hearts of Iron 4, but its not even the most complex Hearts of Iron game, much less one of the most complex RTS games.

Interesting. What's a more-complex RTS game than Ho4? I found EU4 and CK2 easier to learn.

Wargame: Red Dragon? Maybe. Very different genre though.

Harpoon's also rather a gimme off the top of my head, though that's likely a bit of an unfair comparison.

I know this is an old post, but the modern successor to Harpoon is the recently released Command Modern Operations (CMO). It's currently on Steam, and itself a successor of Command Modern Air & Naval Operations (CMANO), which had been out for a few years. Rather pricey, but it's pretty good.

Command Modern Operations looks amazing. At 80 dollars not an easy buy though, but when I upgrade my PC next month maybe I can spend some or just wait for a sale.

But from seeing videos, thats definitely up my alley.

(edit: And wow. Thats a lot of DLC. So game is 80 dollars + 132 USD worth of DLC. I didn't notice that rofl. I'd still get it and slowly get the DLC, but that is a lot of dlc for a newer game)

[EuchreJack]

I've been playing HOI 4's Fallout Mod.  Its complex only in that I have no idea what I'm doing, and its hard to really mesh all the stuff together into divisions.  Its also mainly about fiddling around with the country for like 5 hours, then winning or losing a war in like 5-10 minutes, then trying to figure out what to do next.

They're starting to experiment with having focus trees change upon country change with Tlalocan's death leading to three different countries, player chose one and get new focus tree.  This feature could be evolved to having something where a minor country (any minor country) that forms a major country via conquest could in turn get a new focus tree with new stuff.  They just have to work out the bugs where the new country doesn't get to keep most of its stuff...

[Persus13]

Old World Blues is a lot of fun. I haven't played much since the Mexico update because adding more countries slows down the game, but the main thing I remember was that there's a lot of stuff, so you kindof need to focus on a particular division type, like infantry, and then buff it with soft attack stuff like dynamite and machine gun teams, unless you were fighting countries with power armor, in which case you needed stuff that gave hard attack.

Washington Brotherhood and Troll Warrens were good starter nations, iirc.

[Devastator]

Well, for complex games there's always Allegiance.