Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[deepdowner]

Hello there, following issue / question:

Is there anything to beware of while constructing stairs, in layout or design?

Is a 3x3 stairway better than a 1x1, etc?

The last games I always had a 3x3 main stairway all the way up / down, until I decided to dig a floor (for traps) until digging further down in search of the caverns.
However, I just thought about this design:

Code: [Select]

^_#_v
_____
#_O_#
_____
v_#_^
^ Upstairs
v Downstairs
_ Floor
# Wall
O Well

> a 5x5 layout,
2 corners (left top and right bottom) as upstairs,
2 corners (left bottom and right top) as downstairs
3x3 Square in between with
Well in the center


the main corridors would branch off 3 squares wide, with the # wall allowing 2 doors.

This way I can put my well directly in the main staircase, digging out the walls around the Well / channel space on each level when I want a a well, and leaving the wals in if I don't want a well there.
On the Cistern layer, I can have flowing water which won't fill my staircases because I have 3x3 room for the flow, allowing to channel between the stairs.



Would this be negative for my dwarves, or traffic?


Thanks for your help

[AutomataKittay]

I'd avoid putting wells or holes around major traffic areas, mostly because of bad luck with dwarves not falling into them. As to if 3x3 is better than 1x1, that depends on how often your dwarves have to go up/down the stairs. If they have to go up and down pretty often and you have plenty of them, then 3x3 is better, if your fortresses are pretty flat and dwarves rarely goes up and down, then 1x1 does the job.

I personally prefer 2x2, because I can put walls at the corners and have doors hung up easily.

As for your design, it'd be slight negative for dwarven pathing if they have to go up or down more z's because of longer travel time. And those walls wouldn't cut the pathways if you're hanging two doors there, it'd have to have door between it and the well to stop dwarves from pathing around it. Maybe replace those walls with statues if the doors aren't meant to cut off traffic ways?

Otherwise, go nuts, it seems like it'd look good and if you don't mind dwarves taking a bit longer to go up and down and aren't expecting things to go badly enough to get inside, falling in won't be a concern.

[WhimsyWink]

Newbie myself ... but the advantages of a well are for hospital use and meeting rooms ... neither of which benefit  built into the stairway as far as I can see ... now an oubliette (a hole into which you throw your enemies) ... THAT I can use in that formation ... 3x3 stairs is just for heavy traffic  and near as I can tell not functionally different than 9 stairs in other formations ...

[smjjames]

I'm wondering about this as well. In an old version (DF2010, I was around here until around the caverns and the arena got released), there were pathing problems that a cramped stairway can exacerbate, so, I'm wondering as well about what is the most efficient or at least the most FPS saving main stairwell designs are.

I do know a few tricks though and these kinds of stairwells I believe are what works well. Also, make your main hallways somewhat bigger, maybe 4x4 or 5x5.

Code: [Select]

XXXXX
XX.XX
X.*.X
XX.XX
XXXXX
or
 X X
XXXXX
 X*X
XXXXX
 X X
. floor
* wall
X up/down stairs

Edit: I thought you needed stairwells bigger than 3x3 for heavy traffic? Then again, it's been a long time since I played DF, so I don't know what the best methods are for stairwells and hallways as far as pathing goes in DF2012.

[AutomataKittay]

I'm wondering about this as well. In an old version (DF2010, I was around here until around the caverns and the arena got released), there were pathing problems that a cramped stairway can exacerbate, so, I'm wondering as well about what is the most efficient or at least the most FPS saving main stairwell designs are.

Most FPS saving stairwell is whatever will have dwarves use them the least, which's an entire design issue, really. Current issues is pretty much dwarves have to lay down if there're more than one in same tile, which slows them down a lot. No matter how good your stairway design is, it'll never handle massive traffic.

Most efficient would be the largest that'll allow routine traffic, which's 2x2 for me, since I tries to avoid having them go up and down if I can.

[deepdowner]

All my main corridors (branching off the stairs) are 3 tiles wide - isn't 4 or even 5 complete overkill? 

Currently I have my entrance room (caravan) to trade depot behind a drawbridge, furniture and finished good stockpiles, and then one industry on each floor, all with their stockpile:
Wood (burner, carpenter, craftdwarves)
Mason
Jeweler
Forge (2 Smelter and 3 Forges)
Magmafloor (for below forges)

a few stairs in between until I reach a soil layer
> Dining Room, Kitchen Still Food and Booze stockpile, with farms at the end of the corridor
Living Quarters with 3x3 rooms for my dwarves below the kitchen section
Noble quarters with greater rooms for higher snobs (9x9 for snoblord) above kitchens.

To have it easy I did my wells like this:
Somehwhere on the bottom I had my water flowing system, and then

Code: [Select]

XXXI_______
XXX#_O____
XXXI_______

X Up/Down stairs
I Door
# Wall
_ Floor
O Well

On each floor, so I had a 10 z level high well right above each other.

Also, should I stop putting doors to my stairway?

[smjjames]

Having a wide passageway between the dining hall and the stairwell at least is still a good idea, also for places that you know will see heavy traffic like workshops. As I said, it's been a while.

The DFhack utility, (which is preinstalled in the lazy newb pack expanded bundle, which includes a bunch of other utilities as well) has a few plugins like work orders and the hauling routes thing, but I haven't messed with those yet.

[AutomataKittay]

All my main corridors (branching off the stairs) are 3 tiles wide - isn't 4 or even 5 complete overkill? 

Also, should I stop putting doors to my stairway?

I uses 2 wide and it works for ~100 dwarves to dining room, it'll get a bit crowded when they rushes out to haul or dump, though. 3 or 4 is pretty safe for larger fortresses.

I have doors right against stairs, my comment on your proposed design was more noting that dwarves will move diagonally and assuming the doors were meant to block the way

High quality doors will make dwarves that goes by or through it on their way around happier when they does notices them.

[deepdowner]

Thank you for your help!

So I just watched my dwarves for a bit without interfering, and everything is fine.
The ONLY narrow edge is my 3 tile wide main corridor to the trade depot, because I'm throwing out so much items, when the trader finally arrives I go from 30 idlers to 1, and all my dwarves carry stuff. Fun to watch them trying to avoid bumping into each other.