Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)  (Read 1883 times)

ChainedDjinn

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« on: April 12, 2013, 04:19:28 am »

First of all, Hi everyone! This is my first post on the bay12forums!

Now on to business.

These ideas are from ages ago, when I first started playing dwarf fortress.(Actually I think that was only a year or so ago but...)
I have a better crafted list on my computer but I'm just gonna run over a few of the ideas that have been mulling around my brain, so instead of just [IMAGINING] these features maybe some of them will actually go somewhere.

To start off, let's go with something everyone could use.
Mermaidchants; Ever made a world with lots of islands and civilizations are scattered across a lot of them? Sure some might be more bunched up then others, but you still miss out with trading with the other country. So I introduce The Mermaid Merchants, or MERmaidCHANTS or just MMC's if you really want it short. They move coast to coast to any town with a trading depot adjacent to the open sea, keeping coins flowing and will also tend to maintenance with cleaning up any part of your base!(As long as the area they are exploring is submerged in seawater and accessible from the ocean as can happen with and FUN had by messing with said body of water) This would surly make our finned friends welcome guests as who better to install that last screw pump, rope and/or gear assembly so you can work on getting that water out and get your happy stumpys back to work.

OK, joking aside. This would provide:
-----------------------------
New Merchants with variable goods. (Lots of fish and shell crafts at probably half the price.)
Temporary help if any part of your establishment has been flooded.
Dwarves could get good thoughts from making relations with finned friends. (Bad thoughts could also pop up when they leave.)

Also opens the way to our next item.
======================

Ships, Blimps and other transportation

OK, so the thing is... I have no idea if anyone has come up with similar, but I'm gonna pitch my version an see what comes about.

I noticed a lot of towns in maps I visited were all walled in and seemed more like malls then a village, IDK honestly as I never embarked near enough to one to check. But I saw a LARGE number of towns were by water and by chance the ocean. With so many towns near the water, you'd think someone would start making ways to cross that water as to expand their empire. So I thought having ships of various sizes would be an invaluable addition to the game. I mean the way the game generates the world is random, so why not have a method of crossing water so people who embark to an island don't have to worry about only making deals with their embark town. Of course, their is also the OTHER side to that coin, enemies would also like to profit from your wealth. So not only do you have to worry about goblin invaders, you'll also have a lot of FUN keeping pirates from raiding your precious metals. (Then again, you could always appeal to their fondness of booze. A bunker of ale outside your base as a peace offering might make them better allies then enemies. WHO WANTS A BLACK MARKET!) These individuals would be independent of any country, thereby allowing you to trade goods a few unfortunate merchants might have  "Lost" on an unfortunate visit.

Now their would be a bit of trouble with getting everything set up.
First thing you'd need to do before a ship'll even come to your base is have a dock. (Few floors over open water would suffice)
Second, a shipping guild representative would arrive. Giving you valuable information as to the trading routes and such.
Third, how to flag ships down. The way to do this is with a construction; a lighthouse.
A lighthouse would basically be a building 2-4 z levels high, up for discussion.
First floor is just to get height, they need to see the light.
Second flood could be used to emit light from, but it'll only attract the smallest of skiffs.
Third floor could be used as a roof or to attract larger shipping vessels. (Roof would be to protect flame from rain) The only problem is with this lighthouse, your telling ships of a greater size it's safe to come over. meaning your dock must have a section with 2 z levels of open ocean. otherwise you'll get ships crashing on the shore.
Forth would be as high as you'd need, but has a hefty requirement. Just as with the last you'll need another z level for these fearful freighters, you could get as much as 3-4 caravan's disembarking from these monsters of the sea.

The other problem would be the pathing of these entities, they would need enough room horizontally to get close, then pull in and turn out of your port. So say you have a 5x3 skiff wanting to come in, you'd need about 11x6-7 clear room next to your port before it will even consider coming to you. The larger the ship, the more room it'll need to pull in and out. The ships need to be big, as how else are they supposed to hold wagons?

Similar would have to go for Blimps as well as railroads, haven't spent as much time on them, maybe 2 rails side by side for train transit.

-----------------------------------
So with this you get.
-More merchants! Some with more questionable cargo then others but...(As well as possible stowaways, both coming an going)
-More chance of traveling adventurers. (Which could lower your dwarf count, but also give your engravers more stories to chisel.)
-Better ways of getting fish by casting nets.
-Transport to other continents in adventure mode.
-Other types of transportation.

====================================

Steam, Miasma, laughing and other FUN gases.

I learned after a time, that back in the old days of our stumpy little friends... steam did damage. Why this was taken out I'll probably never know, my point is... STEAM FR**KIN HURTS! It's logic! Water heated up past it's boiling point makes steam. But wait, not all steam hurts. Sweat rooms are one example, so now their needs to be a way of measuring it. I'd say use something similar to water/lava, that way you'd be able to tell steam that's safe 3/7 from steam that's dangerous 5</7 or something similar. Dwarves who spend time in the steam room would get good thoughts, relax nobles and possibly expel toxins/sickness from a body.

But how would you move gas? Theirs always the screw pump system, it works well enough with water, why not air? This also opens other windows. Like, if you put steam under pressure 7/7 and suddenly give it an exit. FOOM, steam burst. You could also have use pipes to move the steam through areas already built, steam punk city anyone? Possible advancements could be steam soldiers or locomotion's like war tanks. Mobile ballast would be able to move to different positions faster then needing to be pulled by strong animals like ox or super strong dwarves. True, amateur creations would have higher chance of possible mishaps,(Steam burst) but that's just part of the FUN. XD There's also the benefit of using steam for energy, like funneling it into a tunnel with windmills. TURBINE POWER GO!

Then theirs miasma, we all know it, we all hate it. But what if it could be used for something useful? Imagine having a goblin siege just outside your door, the trolls are coming up getting closer to your bridges or doors. Then you suddenly remember, the miasma chambers under the entrance! Flip a switch and watch as the purple fog envelopes your enemies, dazing them an making them puke repeatedly, burning their eyes! When the fog clears and the enemy still bewildered by the horrid stench, you release the rest of your forces or a hydra or some other FUN for them to enjoy as they seem too busy rubbing their eyes or barfing their guts to fight back. Also good to use on prisoners before having an average dwarf wrestle of hack'um.

Another thing that would be useful that's also in reality; Gas pockets. Some more deadly then others for sure, but most would still incapacitate and eventually kill your dwarves. As you know, to one side of a coin their is another. Gas is combustible, thus could be used as a fuel source for your furnaces! So you won't have to pull up some of the fun red rum outta the earth, an the elves would be happier with less trees being burned. Also give a use to capturing small animals, they'll die from gas poisoning long before your dwarves will. So stationing some cages around with them would prove useful, just keep an eye on what's inside.

------------------------
Now we have:

-New power/fuel sources
-New weapons (Miasma/Steam: Did you want the pickled goblin or the steam fried???)
-New units/items (If you choose to go steam punk)

================================

I have a few more ideas to drop, I'll give a preview...

Beneficial/Problematic syndromes
Ancient Sealed ones
Fortress O'Fright / Castle Stumpinstine (Mad Science or science gone mad?)
Equivalent size estimate (Different destroyer levels. "Walls are made to be broken.")
Alien/Meteor crashes. ("I still get my phone call right?")
Other Nuisances & Annoyances

Unfortunately, it's gotten really late as I've been writing this as well as my back and fingers are beginning to hurt. I hope maybe some of these suggestions might be implemented/useful by/to someone. I've got a head full of ideas but no outlet for them, maybe here I might get a direction. I wanted to implement a lot of these features in my own game but I don't see that happening.

Hope you've all enjoyed the read, if you got this far then I guess it was worth writing.
Feedback would be appreciated.

Till next we meet
Logged

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 03:19:29 am »

-Under sea civs/ traders are planned
-As are boats
-Better gas system is, if not yet planned, certainly suggested a hundred times. (Steam Punk is a no though. Tech cap)
-Syndrome system is kinda temporary and will be expanded
-More dangers are probably planned, and have been suggested a hundred times.
-Cursed areas are in, and future will probably see more variety
- Alien and meteors are unlikely to happen.
- There have been whole threats on other random events.

Anyway, welcome to the forums.
Logged

ChainedDjinn

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 09:56:42 am »

Phew, finally got some free time again.

Hey, an I gotta reply!

...

Hmmm, alright then. Though I would like to point out I'm also issuing these suggestions toward modders as well, some people might want a little steam-punk, E.T. or other FUN for their stumpys. Also what's a "tech Cap" doesn't sound very nice. >8D

Yeah, but mostly it's horrible agonizing types of poison. There's a lot of tings that could be beneficial if used in moderation, just no promises your dwarves won't abuse such substances. (I swear I didn't burn that blade weed on purpose!)

Danger? Who said anything about danger?! I've just been talking about different ways of advancing the game that would allow the players to have more FUN! ;D

I'm mainly just trying to drain my brain a bit, too much info about what could make the game a better experience for me or others like me. Originally, I wanted to make the changes myself, then I wanted to make my own game with the features, now I simply wish to see all the ideas that keep exploding in my brain to come to some fruition. Tired of hearing "It can't be done" or "It'll take years" and the like... I realized the likelihood of creating something all on my own, but maybe I can at least turn heads in the direction I'm looking. If I can't ride the wave I might as well be a part of it, ya know.

Anyway, I did kinda leave people hanging with the cryptic follow up, so I should probably disclose what they represent. So let's continue where we left off;

Beneficial/Problematic syndromes

Now I'm sure a number of us are familiar with the nastier syndromes like desert scorpion venom or the clouds of flesh corroding Necrosis, but what about the other side of the coin. Poisons can typically be used to make antivenom for said poison, but is that the extent? Shouldn't, as apothecaries have been using poisons for Millennia to do far more then make cures. This could be a gateway to really begin the magic industry, potions of stat.Increase/temporary insight(Skill Gain) or even offensive use. Throwing that vial of GCS venom mixed with a chemical that oxidizes quickly could prove a battle changing advantage.

As useful as it would be, their needs to be more effects. You can make a rainbow with 5 colors, but it'll look artificial, bland and rigid. It's the hues, saturation and shade that make vibrant displays of color that dance across the sky. If rainbows can get away with variation, why not poisons? Make a venom that eases/forces dwarves to relax or lulls them to sleep, maybe a powder that makes your dwarves lazy or pheromones that have your dwarves disrobing and wandering toward blindly. Some effects could just be as simple as giving your dwarves "Bad dreams" or Nightmares, these could also double as effects from a particularly bad experience.
One of your older dwarves from the beginning of the siege could have an episode due to the troll that killed his friends, becoming temporarily insane while he tries to get a grip back on reality. Another example would simply reading your dwarf "Has been waking up in a cold sweat" as to suggest something else might be on your dwarves mind when he's sleeping. (Would probably be common in dwarves getting on in their 'teenage' years") XD Now that's fine and dandy for having the DF norm of FUN but what about something actually fun. Like the other side of that coin? Or the Edge of it. When you think of something always try to think of 3 different directions you could apply it otherwise, things get boring a lot slower that way. Using my prior example reading your dwarf "Has been waking up vibrant and refreshed" could mean something is benefiting his health.

Why stop at poisons? Some effects could be extended to auras, like a song being sung by a siren.(Say that last part 10x fast) XP Or maybe have effects included in 'cone' attacks. (I dun want any Marlboro though! Bad Breath is something I deal with enough IRL) Some method of attaching abilities would be greatly beneficial later, that way regardless as to you attaching the aura to a creature or item or if that item was made FROM something of the creatures as to why it has the effect. (Endless possibilities!)

----------------------------------

Ancient Sealed Beings

Similar to Forgotten Beasts but with a little less randomization here and more variation there. Some could be pre-set while others more generalized but one of their best features would be no ALL of them are KOS. This could be very good or very bad, depending on what you got, where and when. I'll give a couple examples;

Kinda bad
Your digging really deep in the earth, it's before the cavers so you think it's still safe to dig around some. Cracking open a wall reveals a much larger strange section, thinking you found caverns you go to investigate and find a large oubliette; a squashed ellipsoid with a raised center, often containing the ATB. In this particular instance, you see a giant glowing slooth-like creature (You fill in the rest) that loves to sleep and drink booze. Fortunately, he doesn't seem to interested in ripping your dwarves to pieces and seems to keep to himself. Nothing seems wrong at first, but after a while you start a lot of your other dwarves sleeping more and goofing off. The more your dwarves are around the creature, he lazier they get. This could be problematic to down right destructive depending on the base.
Solution- use his love of booze to get him moving out, make piles with booze leading all the was outside. Once outside and with no way to reenter , he'll probably wonder to the maps edge and disappear.

Kinda good
Same as the first except instead we find another being like say... a slug girl, who's slime heals wounds, or a multi-armed goddess who's scent quells anger. A fire deity who gives extra energy to those around him making them get hungry less often, could even be an envoy of purity who cleans the ground as he walks, wounds of those around him and reduces the rot rate of things that eventually do. The list could go on.


Another aspect that separates them from FBs, they are mostly that resemble humanoids in some way. True her hair might move funny. (Did it just hiss at me?) or she might have something weird going on below the belt. (I don't care if she has 8 legs or tentacles, as long as she keeps them to herself.) Also could have an instance of not needing a hand. (Multi armed) In any case, should provide lots of FUN for the one unearthing them.

---------------------------------

OK, I need to take a break again. Falling asleep while typing isn't good.
I'll try to get back asap to talk about the next section, one I've been looking forward to discussing.
Might be a bit about this one I forgot to mention, might come back and fix later.

Till next we meet.
Logged

gbrngfol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 01:32:00 am »

Welcome to Bay12, It's kinda strange here.

The different syndromes idea has been suggested multiple times, along with potions. The ASB idea is quite good though, I'd hate to find the slug girl slime healing the horde of crundles. Although, I think it wold be better if they were the gods of the world instead though. It would definitely open up a few more possibilities in the religion department. Also, the 'tech cap' is the technological barrier that keeps DF in the iron age era.
Logged
My computer breaks down regularly. Duct tape is starting to lose it's charm.

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 08:44:57 am »

The techcap is a suggestion guideline. Ie, anything that was invented after 1450 is unlikely to make it into the game.
Logged

gbrngfol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 09:57:06 pm »

@^ Well yeah, I guess that is a more accurate description.
Logged
My computer breaks down regularly. Duct tape is starting to lose it's charm.

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2013, 09:22:06 pm »

Spoiler: First Post Thoughts: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: OP's Next Post Stuff (click to show/hide)
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Urist Mc Dwarf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2013, 07:56:06 am »

Why would ships crashing onto your shore so you can loot them be a bad thing

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2013, 10:40:19 am »

It wouldn't be...

IF:
1. Their crashing on shore made sense and wasn't just "The game randomly decides to give you 3 *chalk mugs*!"
2. Ships were also implemented elsewhere.
3. It really needs to make sense, so I'm mentioning it twice. After all, ships that crash into shore aren't common occurances.
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Urist Mc Dwarf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2013, 03:33:39 pm »

Here are a few of mu ideas from years gone psat(Now officsaly the misc thread)

Caltrops- metal throwable spike that always have one spike facing up for killing calvary
Dwarf martial arts- if a dwarf is legendary in all unarmed combat will use other strikes like palm strikes and spear hands and side kicks.

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2013, 02:28:25 pm »

Misc thread tend to die an a ball of fire and unsearched, never going to be implemented ideas.
Logged

CaptainArchmage

  • Bay Watcher
  • Profile Pic has Changed! Sorry for the Delay.
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2013, 08:20:24 pm »

Blimps:

There is little reason to reject blimps from the game as a legitimate means of transportation outright simply based on the tech cap. We can build mechanical computers in the game already, and use magma to power forges.

Blimps can use the same design as ships. Blimps would allow safer trading, not subject to attack by armies or ground-based wildlife, and would allow access across uninhabited mountains. They would also allow trading across oceans, even without existing ports.

The blimps can just use hot air (generated by magic, the sun, or burning wood) and wind propulsion. This would reduce fuel requirements to zero, or "as long as the occupants can find a source of wood, they can continue flying".

Building blimps in fortress mode would require a large cloth industry, and a source of wood.

New Items:

Furniture...

Bookcase: This stores books, tomes, scrolls, and official records. Crafts may also be placed on a bookcase.

Desk: Desks serve as a table, but they allow storage of books, official records, and writing supplies. Dwarves requiring an office will prefer a desk over a table, and will otherwise get the "Did not have a proper surface to work on during his duties" or "Did not have a desk to work at" bad thoughts. Dwarves in dining rooms will prefer tables over desks, and get bad thoughts otherwise (not as bad as a complete lack of places to eat at).

Bench: Benches act like chairs, but are more than one tile long and therefore seat more than one dwarf. Public benches increase happiness. A dwarf requiring an office will not appreciate having a bench instead of a chair or throne. Benches are acceptable for use in dining halls, and also act as a source of crazy work-based accidents involving broken windows, damaged, doors, and crushed dwarves.

Torch holders: Holds a light source. Can be placed on the ground, on furniture, or carved into a wall. A torch will have a facing when knocked into a wall. Torch holders could be put into the game immediately without waiting for lighting, since they also serve as a decoration and an item which can be demanded.

Rugs and Carpets: Rugs and carpets can be placed on a floor, or attached to a wall (with a direction). They act as a covering, so it is possible to carpet a floor tile and then place furniture on it.

Curtains: Curtains either cover windows, preventing dwarves from seeing out of them, or can be used as doors. Curtains can be attached to a ceiling, so it is possible to place a row of curtains right across a room.

... and other items

Flags: Are direly needed. Flags can be attached inside or outside, and may be hung from a wall or pole. A flag's design can be chosen by the player.

Ink, pens, pencils, inkpots: Items to write with. Required for high-level book-keeping.

Vehicles (other than ships and blimps)

Carts and wagons: these are to be drawn by animals. Some dwarves should be able to make use of a cart to obtain the items they need. Siege weapons may also be transported in carts and wagons.

Pulley systems: A pulley system requires rope, wheels, supports, and gears. They can be used to transport items vertically between Z-levels, or allow dwarves and items to move across open spaces in a basket. Unlike minecarts, it is not possible to walk on the pulley rope. Not easily, at least. Some nasty creatures would be able to navigate pulley networks. Other creatures (i.e. elephants) would not. Pulleys can be used for mechanical lifts. A mechanically powered pulley will usually move faster than a dwarf-powered pulley.

Canoe: This is a 1-tile wide boat of a user-defined length, which can be used to fish in rivers. It may also be used to transport small items.

Barge: This is a multi-tile platform which floats on water. It can be used to transport many items, or be used for fishing. A barge can be used in conjunction with a Pulley system. It may also be used in a water lift.

Water lift: a water lift uses a vertical shaft, a platform, a switch-able pump, and a switch-able drain. The AI should be able to figure out routine operation. If the water lift breaks, you will have to get the dwarves out of the machine yourself.
Logged
Given current events, I've altered my profile pic and I'm sorry it took so long to fix. If you find the old one on any of my accounts elsewhere on the internet, let me know by message (along with the specific site) and I'll fix. Can't link the revised avatar for some reason.

10ebbor10

  • Bay Watcher
  • DON'T PANIC
    • View Profile
Re: A Few ideas... (From years gone past)
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2013, 04:13:52 am »

Misc threads tend to die in a ball of fire and unsearched / never going to be implemented ideas.
That was fast.
Logged