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[Slayermaster]

So I got an idea for a fortress, built on a cliff face, on a glacier, everything is made of ice. Everything.

How would I go about finding something with such a dramatic drop-off point? So I can have a good number of Z-levels and have windows that look out over the abyss.

Such as:
| = Window
x = Floor
- = Abyss

--|xxx
--|xxx
--|xxx
--|xxx

[i2amroy]

I believe if you generate a world with "Periodically Erode Extreme Cliffs" set to "NO" then you will be much more likely to get cliffs in your world.

[Slayermaster]

I believe if you generate a world with "Periodically Erode Extreme Cliffs" set to "NO" then you will be much more likely to get cliffs in your world.

Any other settings I should look at for world gen?

[vjek]

I've done this in the past, and it's certainly possible.  I found using dfHack liquids to be the fastest path forward in a very cold embark.  This let me build a large area of ice to mine, or several layers of ice above the surface to build within, pretty quickly.

In my experience, vertical cliff faces more than 4-Z levels are rare in 34.11, outside of the intersection of two rivers.  It is vastly easier to build your own, imho.

Dwarves can also survive in much colder environments than what the wiki might imply.  MUCH colder.  The colder, the better, when ice-casting.

[Slayermaster]

More than 4 is rare? I need about 20 levels...so how do I go about using dfhack liquids?  Explain to someone who has only ever used the clean function in dfhack.

Here is a rough diagram for my idea

[vjek]

I can't post in great detail until later on this evening/tomorrow, but I'll give you a quick overview.

In advanced worldgen, use -36/-36 for min/max temperature.  Try embarking near the colder edge of the world.  You'll also need to increase LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND: to at least 20.
Here's a worldgen I used for my ice fortress:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Created in DF v0.34.11.

[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:GLACIER2]
[SEED:zVI6KueIJwQPuvTuaGhv]
[HISTORY_SEED:LLFy6qzmHwdVI8srxXfm]
[NAME_SEED:4KHuRN1gzg82zuOoBHfx]
[CREATURE_SEED:hnZXRh5sBwsMmaPqkTCH]
[DIM:65:65]
[EMBARK_POINTS:2500]
[END_YEAR:250]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:200:99]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
[ELEVATION:100:400:0:0]
[RAINFALL:9:9:0:0]
[TEMPERATURE:-36:-36:0:0]
[DRAINAGE:32:32:0:0]
[VOLCANISM:0:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY:0:0:0:0]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:4:9:0:0:0:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:1000]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:0]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:0]
[TITAN_NUMBER:0]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:0]
[DEMON_NUMBER:0]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:0]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:0]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:0]
[SECRET_NUMBER:0]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:0]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:0]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:0]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:0]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:0]
[RIVER_MINS:0:0]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:0]
[SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:5]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:10]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:20]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:25]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:24]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:8]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:2]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:2]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:2]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:3]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:2]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:1]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:1]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:5]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:0]
[SITE_CAP:0]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]


Once you've embarked somewhere flat, move your loo'k' cursor to a  spot below and to the left of your wagon.
Then in dfhack
liquids
w
2
r
50
50
1
enter
q

What should happen is, it selects water (instead of magma, which, while fun, is not our goal...  ) , sets it to 2/7 water depth (which creates ice much faster than 1/7) r allows us to define the range, which we then set to 50 wide, 50 long, and 1 Z-level high.  enter places the water. q exits the liquids interface, taking you back to the main dfhack command line.

prior to do that, you can check the temperature on the embark with the 'probe' command in dfhack.  My embark temp was 9918U and it worked fine.
once that level completely freezes, try moving up one Z level and making more ice above it.  You may have to wait a few seconds to let the water freeze to ice.  I recommend placing the water while the game is paused, unpausing it until it freezes, then moving up and continuing/repeating.

Just remember, ice "floors" built with this method are only supported orthogonally, not diagonally.  It makes quite a difference when mining.

[laularukyrumo]

"Periodically Erode Extreme Cliffs" turned off is also useful. There's also an option in embark, hit the TAB key four times, brings up the cliffs/slopes detection view. Look for the masterwork symbol, indicates 20+ z-level cliffs. Also, in worldgen, cranking up the elevation x- and y-variance to extremes is a good idea, and also setting a small elevation mesh size, potentially with slightly higher weights towards the high, non-mountain end of the scale can help.

DFhack liquids is also relatively poor choice, if only because it's slightly buggy at times, not to mention a little cheaty. Using it to fix worldgen issues is one thing, but I've found it to be kind of a slippery slope. I had to quit cold turkey because I couldn't handle the Fun without it, found myself relying on Slayrace quite a bit.

[vjek]

If I knew there was a way to generate what Slayermaster wants with advanced worldgen, I would definitely have provided that first.  Even with using Preset Value Fields to manually place 200 Z level elevation disparity, I couldn't produce what I wanted, so dfhack liquids is what I ended up using.

I've gone through what you describe in terms of tweaking advanced worldgen parameters, and haven't personally found any perfectly vertical cliff faces over 4 Z's in height, and definitely not 20 Z's as outlined.

Do you have a 34.11 embark with such a feature, laularukyrumo, that is not at the intersection of two rivers?

[Slayermaster]

Well...after messing with world gen, I managed to create this nonsense. I can see so many stories coming from this...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Itnetlolor]

Well...after messing with world gen, I managed to create this nonsense. I can see so many stories coming from this...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice ice age.

[laularukyrumo]

I'm fairly sure that once you have a cliff, you can dig into it and MAKE it vertical. They won't start that way though, because of erosion. But once you have a cliff, you can smooth it out via channeling rather easily.

Also, that is one sexy world.

[Slayermaster]

While I'm asking questions...

So I'm thinking about defense here, and traps won't work for this setup, it would block caravans, I have a single line of cage traps right before my main stairwell, but goblins would just walk around that, I can pull out my (now five) bridges, but time restraints.

So I was thinking of making 3 ballista and setting them at the end of my entrance hall, and during sieges I launch goblins into space, is this feasible? Will range work with this? This would be my first experience with siege weaponry.

This is my entrance hall as it stands, I might move the depot a bit to place cage traps before the access stairway next to it.

[Itnetlolor]

While I'm asking questions...

So I'm thinking about defense here, and traps won't work for this setup, it would block caravans, I have a single line of cage traps right before my main stairwell, but goblins would just walk around that, I can pull out my (now five) bridges, but time restraints.

So I was thinking of making 3 ballista and setting them at the end of my entrance hall, and during sieges I launch goblins into space, is this feasible? Will range work with this? This would be my first experience with siege weaponry.

This is my entrance hall as it stands, I might move the depot a bit to place cage traps before the access stairway next to it.

Spoiler: Rather large image (click to show/hide)

I have a similar setup with one of my current fortresses, except my bridge topples in a different manner.

Spoiler: My setup, so far (click to show/hide)

The bridges are built along a spine from land to fort, bridges flip inward along the spine to leave almost no ground to stay on, guaranteeing everyone falls off. If you're lucky enough to dodge into the front door's safety zone, you get atom-smashed.

Spoiler: I wanted to make a cliffside village and such myself, and made some blueprints for something of the sort like so: (click to show/hide)

TamedEarth (first image) is the closest thing to this blueprint that I have made so far; and it's still incomplete by a longshot. Testing my bridge orientations, trade caravans can still reach the depot no problem, and if I feel like it, I can close the first and last bridges, and then drop the rest of them on the fly from a nearby burrowed switchbox room with a team of dedicated lever pullers always on call. Unfortunately, all the other dwarves of the local area still decide to eat their food and drink their booze.

If you want some ideas, I wanted to setup a minecart railgun launch system that fires heavy minecarts down the bridge at full-throttle towards the poor saps who think it a good idea to attack your base. Naturally, a pit will have to be waiting down the line (after a test shot or two to estimate the min/max distance they can fly/soar down the line) to catch the carts and return them safely after firing them away. For a decent return system, make a similar launch system going in the opposite direction landing into a collection pit back at base where your haulers can safely retrieve them and reload the railgun quickly. With a good enough setup, only the railgun needs to be assigned for pushing the minecarts through, since the pit would abuse the laws of physics akin to how a bowling alley returns bowling balls after knocking down the pins (make sure you have plenty of up/downhill tracks placed for the receiving ends to keep them moving without dorf-power). Bonus points, allow for an alternate invader path (when re-routing after locking down the main entrance) to serve as an accessway to the returning salvos of minecarts. Temporarily close off the main gateway bridge to get some poor saps re-routed in there, lower the bridge and take on the "smarter ones" that return to the main path, and now who you miss above will instead flatten anyone going through the return lane with the returning ammo. Naturally, carry some spares, double to triple how much you think you need in case there's some traffic jamming (or creature jam of the chunky variety) in the return pipeline.

[Deathworks]

Hello!

While I have not messed around with temperature, I have created a world that should have some nice cliff faces. I am trying to upload it to the file depot, but somehow, the depot is not really cooperative. I am sorry, but the file depot doesn't like me, so I can't upload this world, so I think you will be better off re-genning it, maybe changing the temperature settings (although there seem to be enough cliffs near the glaciers as well). Still, I have uploaded the overview map at the map archive to give a general overview.

Code: [Select]

[TITLE:CLIFFHUNTING]
[SEED:Cliff-face]
[HISTORY_SEED:Cliff-face]
[NAME_SEED:Cliff-face]
[CREATURE_SEED:Cliff-face]
[DIM:129:129]
[EMBARK_POINTS:10000]
[END_YEAR:213]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:200:-1]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:1:400:3200:3200]
[RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
[TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200]
[DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:3200:3200]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:10:1:1:1:10]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:200]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:20]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:50]
[TITAN_NUMBER:15]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:28]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:14]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:14]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:14]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:14]
[SECRET_NUMBER:28]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:14]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:14]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:500:251:503]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:500:251:503]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:200]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:1000]
[RIVER_MINS:800:200]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:20]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:20]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:5]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:25]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:50]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:1]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:16]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:-1]
[SITE_CAP:-1]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:2080:0:2080]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

Yours,
Deathworks

[laularukyrumo]

As far as defense goes... Enemy pathfinding can be abused, because they always take the shortest available path. So if you use traps to guide the caravans down a winding path, and leave a short-ish, heavily trapped path, the goblins will just march into your *steel serrated disks*.