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[Owlbread]

I think a good way to get rid of rubble would be to use it to "fill in" mined areas that you don't need anymore. An example would be if you're mining out some kind of visual masterpiece like a great hall or something, then you suddenly strike a precious metal. The only problem is it's embedded into one of your walls, and if you start mining it out it'll mess up the design. I think it would be good if you could fill in that area after you've mined it with rubble, creating rough-hewn walls or similar. That would turn the squares black again and stop you from seeing the spaces anymore. You could repair the gap in the wall it created by building a new one out of the same material as the rest of the smoothed wall.

[Pootis]

As on the subject of rubble...while new players would be helped out by being able to use rubble to build fortifications, the stuff down in the mines would seriously hinder them, as would being unable to drag rocks past other rocks (to say nothing of getting sieges when all you have is a cave!). While this wouldn't be an issue if we were playing human fortress (and most building was done above ground in any case...), in DWARF fortress, where virtually all building is done below ground, it would become a serious issue, considering none of the other races need to put up with it to the extent dwarves do.

I think that, as someone else has said, an expansive underground fortress should be the product of a long and well-played game, not a birthright carved in the first few weeks of your settlement. Interestingly enough it's currently more difficult to build above-ground settlements then a "traditional" subterranean one, since designating constructed walls/floors/ceilings is a bit more tedious then simply laying out a square "dig" designation and having it carved out in seconds. It shouldn't be that easy.
If that forces most settlements to start out in wooden cabins on the surface, then that's as it should be.

[assasin]

natural gas is odorless, so you would have to know it was there to detect it!)-

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd assume that a race that customarily lives underground would automatically have some sort of canary warning system. Would probably be part of the default "play now" embark, wouldn't it?

and need to be dealt with (detonation or dispersal-knockermen anybody?)

detonation seems like a waste. Could be a useful sort of fuel, especially if magma/lava was made more realistic with it cooling down into rock and stuff.

I think a good way to get rid of rubble would be to use it to "fill in" mined areas that you don't need anymore. An example would be if you're mining out some kind of visual masterpiece like a great hall or something, then you suddenly strike a precious metal. The only problem is it's embedded into one of your walls, and if you start mining it out it'll mess up the design. I think it would be good if you could fill in that area after you've mined it with rubble, creating rough-hewn walls or similar. That would turn the squares black again and stop you from seeing the spaces anymore. You could repair the gap in the wall it created by building a new one out of the same material as the rest of the smoothed wall.

Not exactly realistic but it would be nice to be able to repair the natural enviroment. Or even just move soil around for more convenient farms.

Realisticly I believe rubble was used in medieaval walls. I'm not exactly certain why they did that but if I had to give an answer I'd say that it increased the walls flexibility and made it harder for it to break when having boulders thrown at it, kinda like the difference between iron and steel.

[Pootis]

I think a good way to get rid of rubble would be to use it to "fill in" mined areas that you don't need anymore. An example would be if you're mining out some kind of visual masterpiece like a great hall or something, then you suddenly strike a precious metal. The only problem is it's embedded into one of your walls, and if you start mining it out it'll mess up the design. I think it would be good if you could fill in that area after you've mined it with rubble, creating rough-hewn walls or similar. That would turn the squares black again and stop you from seeing the spaces anymore. You could repair the gap in the wall it created by building a new one out of the same material as the rest of the smoothed wall.

Not exactly realistic but it would be nice to be able to repair the natural enviroment. Or even just move soil around for more convenient farms.

Realisticly I believe rubble was used in medieaval walls. I'm not exactly certain why they did that but if I had to give an answer I'd say that it increased the walls flexibility and made it harder for it to break when having boulders thrown at it, kinda like the difference between iron and steel.

The ability to move soil around seems to be one of the big things missing from fortress mode, to me anyway.

And the bit with rubble walls, yeah, I think that's accurate. You could also make some pretty flimsy wooden walls and just fill them up with soil/rubble and have some fairly sturdy fortifications or even buildings, AFAIK modern militaries often fill up giant baskets with soil as defenses on forward operating bases and the like.

[Waparius]

With wheelbarrows, bags etc it should be relatively simple to move soil around. Maybe add shovels to the list of tools/weapons, and use it both for digging though dirt (and rubble if that gets put it, though it might well not) and possibly for spreading it or other similar materials over surfaces to create an effect similar to the mud floors you find in cavern layers.

If specific kinds of soil get important you can start to throw that in for strategic farm-relocation as well, I guess?

[CrzyMonkeyNinja]

Realisticly I believe rubble was used in medieval walls. I'm not exactly certain why they did that but if I had to give an answer I'd say that it increased the walls flexibility and made it harder for it to break when having boulders thrown at it, kinda like the difference between iron and steel.

I think that sounds correct. Also, the Romans used rubble/gravel in their early from of concrete and in their roads. As a side note, I think the dwarves would certainly be inventive enough to come up with that same Roman-style concrete and would love to see it implemented somehow. (Yes, I do realize that this is the second time I have mentioned the Romans. I think they're cool. Get over it.)

Aother thought just ocurred to me: wouldn't rubble be a nice way to get stone crafts to make more sense? You can carve a statue out of a stone as it is now, but you would require rubble to produce a bunch of little, stone crafts.

Rubble would make ore and coal make more sense too. You can't smelt iron out of a huge block of hematite; you need to break it into smaller pieces first. Similarly, you can't burn a huge block of coal very quickly or make it produce much heat. Rubble could solve both of these small, realism-based problems.

[Waparius]

Another one that would be good would be some sort of water table and a need to pump out your mines, though there'd probably need to be some effort to stop it killing the framerate. I'd really like deeper mines to need some sort of drainage infrastructure. Aquifers are currently way too messy and difficult, but having some sort of slow seepage that you need to pump and gutter away would be neat.

[assasin]

Another one that would be good would be some sort of water table and a need to pump out your mines, though there'd probably need to be some effort to stop it killing the framerate. I'd really like deeper mines to need some sort of drainage infrastructure. Aquifers are currently way too messy and difficult, but having some sort of slow seepage that you need to pump and gutter away would be neat.

also dealing with heat. it gets really hot really quickly if you dig deep enough. Though I'm not sure how that would work with dwarf tech.I'd prefer if stuff like dealign with water and heat is left up to player ingenuity and the things used to deal with stuff like that are designed to be as flexible as possible . Maybe fans blowing in cold air and suckign out warm in could be the basic option, with more advanced systems being player designed walls made out of a conductive [to heat] material as a pipe with the inside being air and the outside being cold water. Actually, now that I think about it it might be interesting having to see dwarves deep down in a mine having to deal with the fact there would be complications such as having a limited access to oxygen or whatever.

[Pootis]

also dealing with heat. it gets really hot really quickly if you dig deep enough. Though I'm not sure how that would work with dwarf tech.I'd prefer if stuff like dealign with water and heat is left up to player ingenuity and the things used to deal with stuff like that are designed to be as flexible as possible . Maybe fans blowing in cold air and suckign out warm in could be the basic option, with more advanced systems being player designed walls made out of a conductive [to heat] material as a pipe with the inside being air and the outside being cold water. Actually, now that I think about it it might be interesting having to see dwarves deep down in a mine having to deal with the fact there would be complications such as having a limited access to oxygen or whatever.

I'd think that the heating should be a function of your proximity to magma instead of just how deep you are.
That would make volcanoes quite useful in cold biomes.

[Waparius]

Does heat/cold do much to dwarves at the moment? Having excessive heat make dwarves get more easily exhausted and take more breaks would add to the fun, I think, and make more incentive for proper heat management.

[fractalman]

only extreme heat and cold do much to dwarves at the moment...
and fat...behaves very oddly.