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Author Topic: Physics and mathematics discussion  (Read 44120 times)

Shoku

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #420 on: February 09, 2010, 06:13:02 pm »

Most of the mass of a molten stone humanoid would likely be concentrated at its legs though,  as flowing stone would be dragged down, so I'd say that last part is negated. Also, it effectively lowers the density of air around it by heating it up (or wait, does it work that way? I think it does, hot air balloons and such).
PV=nRT
So ya, little more pressure until the volume changes which means pushing things out.
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Please get involved with my making worlds thread.

decius

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #421 on: February 09, 2010, 06:28:27 pm »

PV=nRT only applies to ideal gases. Solids and liquids are not ideal gases. If you meant that hot air has less buoyancy, I'm not sure. The total effect of immersion in different fluids should be the integral of the difference in pressure from head to foot, or something like that.

Also, kinetic energy has no effect on mass. Relativistic effects are due to the effects of velocity on distance and time, not mass.

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TBH, I think that all dwarf fortress problem solving falls either on the "Rube Goldberg" method, or the "pharaonic" one.
{Unicorns} produce more bones if the werewolf rips them apart before they die.

Innominate

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #422 on: February 09, 2010, 07:18:17 pm »

PV=nRT only applies to ideal gases. Solids and liquids are not ideal gases. If you meant that hot air has less buoyancy, I'm not sure. The total effect of immersion in different fluids should be the integral of the difference in pressure from head to foot, or something like that.

Also, kinetic energy has no effect on mass. Relativistic effects are due to the effects of velocity on distance and time, not mass.


Well relativity does affect mass, but this isn't in and of itself relativity.

Energy won't affect the actual mass, but it will affect most measurements thereof. Unless you're measuring the gravitational field caused by the mass, you have to be measuring that masses response to some other gravitational field*, and the increased pressure from the heat will add some small amount of force to what is measured.

*Well I suppose you could also measure inertia, assuming you know other properties independently (this is how they calculated the ratio of charge to mass in electrons and protons - absolute values came later). Things get a bit complicated though, as the fundamental forces are all dependent on elementary particles and inertia, and elementary particles have their own mass. So essentially you'd need to solve many simultaneous equations and get data from other places. This is why, in the land of people who don't have infinite time to determine the mass of an object, we just use scales.
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StrawBarrel

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #423 on: September 21, 2024, 03:48:50 pm »

Screenshot of video @~11:00
Vector Addition from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4bH66vYjss
------------------
Disprove the following statement: "A system with more unknowns than equations has at least one solution."
Spoiler: Counter example (click to show/hide)
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Starver

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #424 on: September 21, 2024, 04:32:05 pm »

X=√56.25, Y=0, G=7.5 can fit both.

(The first possibility I tried amongst literally countless solutions, using just the one 'trick'.)
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #425 on: September 21, 2024, 08:55:52 pm »

X=√56.25, Y=0, G=7.5 can fit both.

(The first possibility I tried amongst literally countless solutions, using just the one 'trick'.)
You wouldn't normally allow an unknown to be both the positive and negative square root. It has to have a definite value, just an unspecified one.
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Starver

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #426 on: September 22, 2024, 04:37:57 am »

X=√56.25, Y=0, G=7.5 can fit both.

(The first possibility I tried amongst literally countless solutions, using just the one 'trick'.)
You wouldn't normally allow an unknown to be both the positive and negative square root. It has to have a definite value, just an unspecified one.

It's the way (one of the ways...) to not just dismiss the whole thing as erronious from the start. Another would be to assume an inherently modulo mathematical system (like operating with map longitudes, where 0°=360°, etc). And if you only 'used' an unknown value in a zero-multiplied form then it could be anything.

If you assume a standard mathematical number-line then 0=15 cannot be true and the axioms that lead to it are therefore contradictory under 'basic' algebra. But it doesn't take long until you get into the kind of territory where you use 'complex' terms (such as F=F' where they are not values but functions, or set-holders from which valid subsets can be derived).


In context, I know, it's just basically writing 0=15 as a clearly wrong equation and thus you (the writer of it) have made an error almost from the very beginning, like the old proof that 0=1 or 1=2 (whichever version you favour). Then the counter-example of the post is just plain invalid, no matter how many (or few) additional definite-unknowns you pile onto both sides to fulfil the unknowns:equations ratio. Yet, at later stages of mathematics, you might well be able to justify cases of X≠X (or perhaps even Y=^Y) under certain regulated circumstances. If you insist upon a formalised system where such things can be true.


Assuming you care about a variable beyond its immediate use. If you established that x=✓y and also z=x⁴ (as a basic example), then it doesn't matter at all that x is ±2 if y is definitely (once established by further means) 4 and z is definitely 16. By convention, one might assume x=+2, but that would really be dependant upon what something like x³ turns out to be, if that is ever given. You might assume positive if you also had to ✓x elsewhere, at least until you admit to the possibility of (at least 'temporary') imaginary values, which might end up leading to the only true and valid solution of the whole gamut of x, y and z values once you juggle the forumulae (beyond merely those I give here) around.


(TL;DR; - it's a disprovable disproof. Unless it isn't disprovable, in which case it might also not now be a disproof. But it'll depend upon which domain(s) of algebra you're in.)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2024, 04:39:50 am by Starver »
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McTraveller

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #427 on: September 22, 2024, 06:24:20 am »

Yeah the

Code: [Select]
x + y + g = 0
x + y + g = 15

is not two linearly independent equations; the left hand sides are the same thing. So there are two errors (with the square-root-type solution); one is trying to do this with equations that are not linearly independent and the other is applying nonlinear solutions to a linear equation.

My thinking was along the lines of Starver, by picking something like boolean logic. Specifically, there is no such boolean number B such that B = NOT B.
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eerr

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Re: Physics and mathematics discussion
« Reply #428 on: September 22, 2024, 10:47:19 am »

see, this is what happens when people take the formulas out of the context they're being used in.

like the many versions of infinity out there.

plus minus combined in a formula means the formula isn't fully solved.
if there is just one plusminus, there could be two answers, one answer, or no answers.
or more than two if the quote managed to butcher the usage of it in a particularly obtuse formula.
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