Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Has attributes a limit?  (Read 886 times)

snakesoul

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Has attributes a limit?
« on: April 13, 2013, 01:42:19 pm »

I mean, if I reach superhuman strength, will it get higher than that level?

If I'm looking for transform my adventurer into a vampire, as this doubles the attributes, will it work selecting high attributes at start and then they'll get automatically to superhuman once my char is a vamp?

thanks!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 03:02:18 pm by snakesoul »
Logged

laularukyrumo

  • Bay Watcher
  • Needs More Socks
    • View Profile
Re: Has attributes a limit?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2013, 07:17:30 pm »

Attributes as visible in-game without an external utility are misleading. "Superhuman" is a category, based on reference points defined in the raws. In terms of what the game reads, attributes can have a numeric value from 0 to 5000. The actual mechanics differ between fortress mode and adventure mode, but the information that specifically affects your question is as follows:

"The speed of learning attributes is governed by "cost to improve" in PHYS_ATT_RATES and MENT_ATT_RATES. By default CTI for attributes is 500, which means the counter for using that attribute has to be incremented 500 times for the Dwarf to gain 1 in that attribute. The lower the CTI, the faster an attribute increases. According to this post the counter is incremented every ten ticks a skill using that attribute is in use. This means it takes 5000 TUs or just over 4 in-game days of continuous labour to improve an attribute by 1."

This information is not directly asked, but it affects your decisions--because attributes are not strictly modified directly by the categories you see. The game doesn't read "above average", "superhuman", "very low", or anything of that nature. Instead, the raws for each creature specify a range of values, which determine which numerical values correspond to the upper and lower bounds of specific categories--such as Superhuman. When you become a vampire, the "doubling of attributes" refers not to the category jumping up X steps, but that the actual numeric value of your attribute is doubled. Since the token [PHYS_ATT_RANGE] does not occur in the human raws, it uses the default values: [450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]. This means that if your strength is "average", you will likely start with some value close to 1250. I don't know where exactly the threshold between "superior" and "superhuman" lies, but even assuming that a strength of 2251 will report as Superhuman, it is still not in your best interest to attain vampirism immediately.

Once you become a vampire, you cannot increase attributes. (Assuming the tag functions properly, which I don't know. Even then, you will likely hit the cap.) It is therefore best to maximize your attributes before committing to vampirism. The cap is equal to the sum of your starting value and whichever is higher, the median value (1250) or your starting value. It is therefore not possible to attain Superhuman strength if you start as average (barring vampirism increases, as these bypass the cap); you must start at least Above Average. It is also worth noting that the functional difference between being two points under the category threshold, and two points above, is insignificant, even though you perceive a huge difference from the category having advanced. It is also worth noting that if you hit Superhuman pre-vampirism, and then become a night creature, you will notice a drastic improvement, despite still being listed at "merely" Superhuman.

tl;dr getting to superhuman isn't the tip of the iceberg and you should still wait for vampirism even if you put max points into strength at character creation
Logged
Quote from: Dwarfotaur
Everytime one of my militia has given birth in the Danger Room, it's lead to instant baby smoothies for everyone.

Gotta Catch 'Em All!

Dat Sig Thread