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[tilly]

After studying biology, evolution and social development. I'd like to suggest for world gen and maybe even the fortress, defining actions that determine who a dwarf will be. How strong he will be. His intelligence. His susceptibility to withdrawing from society. All based off the environment in which they live. For instance, your fort has been very low on food during the time of a pregnancy and even so after birth. The dwarven baby would then be effected by a metabolism trait where if there is an abundance of food they can become fat and sluggish or in times of maintained opulence, high metabolisms unfold where the body's would store less fat. In terms of withdrawing society, a baby who is left unattended would/should cry if the cries go unanswered the person will grow up to have few friends and may even be capable of mayhem in the fort if the conditions are right. This would broaden the range of the good and bad thought system already being developed and if it could be incorporated one day in the far future i think would make this game much more realistic and especially interesting. (edit) Also, I forgot to mention how stress can effect babies in mothers wombs. Creating and maintaining good thoughts would be essential to how your dwarves evolve. Massive losses during a pregnancy could even produce a demigod or a very rare type of dwarf.

[tilly]

I also would like to point out that I understand this could pose many problems such as memory usage, processor capabilities and what not but, it's a suggestion I expect to be taken as a grain of salt. Sadly, On top of that I don't have a clear vision of where this game will be taken years down the road all I know is that your business model and the game you have created Toady; has the most potential out of every game I have ever seen and i say that with all do respect to how amazing DF already is. Good luck to you, Toad One and your team I wish to you a very prosperous and happy new year.

[DG]

How much of what you suggest is established and broadly accepted science rather than conjecture or theory? For example especially, the assertion that people who as babies have their cries ignored grow to become unsociable and prone to violence.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Not theory. Don't get me started on theory. HYPOTHESIS. Theories are like gravity, relativity, and evolution.

[DG]

Heh, you're absolutely correct. I apologize 

[GreatWyrmGold]

There's a lot of things that bug me. It happens.

[Starver]

Back to the OP, I could imagine there being a good old mix of nature/nurture ratios for various aspects of a dwarf's make-up.  Hair colour (barring hair-dyes) could be 100% nature[1], whereas how could religious affiliation be there from birth?  100% nurture[2], methinks (at least in 'choice' of deity, though some mental nature would affect the 'uptake' of worship for the chosen being).

Stature would be part genetics, but a dwarf destined to be stout could be stunted by environmental factors[3], or a born-weakling toughened up by the local regime (if not broken by it, of course).


Some slight complication, obviously.  As far as I can tell (haven't checked the wisdom of the wiki, nor spotted anyone reporting anything on here (but then I wasn't looking for it), the "great rolls of fat" trait is largely down to how much eating is done (although the degree of propensity may be elsewhere fixed), while I still assume that there's an inherited genetic component to the more general build.

Certainly when I practice Darwinian husbandry of my animals (slaughter the ones that have weaker characteristics, let the others breed, albeit possibly for an initial loss of meat fat resources in the butchery industry) I seem to end up with top-end creatures.  But I haven't actually tried the opposite approach of slaughtering the biggest creatures and seeing if the offspring of the remainder tend to be smaller.

(Also, apart from the actual grazers, I don't know how some animals might accumulate their "great rolls of fat" or not...  Maybe they all do anyway, as long as they aren't starved, just like growing more fleece.)


[1] Although there's a point where 'nurture', or at least different types of later-life experiences, could accelerate or decelerate the hair greying, or being lost.

[2] Although that might be 40% father, 40% mother and 20% other authority figures in the kid's life.  Adjusted by various factors (absent parents losing their influence, strongly pious individuals counting more (assuming no clash where it puts the kid off, and decreases their own fervency, rather than increases it...)

[3] Or inherited epigenetic factors deriving from the parental/grandparental environment of the time, to mirror the real-world studies along these lines.  In-game it'd just be considered a malleable heritable trait, perhaps with each generation having passed "imminent stature" into "actual stature" and "pre-imminent stature" into "imminent stature", and "pre-imminent stature" being entirely left to the winds of change in that generation.

[tilly]

My research is generally a fond understanding relate-able in examples and cited in books and are general observations of the real world and shouldn't ever be dismissed or accepted as law for change is the way of evolution. Be aware though, it doesn't mean these things don't happen. Also, be aware I didn't say a thing about GENETIC BIRTH TRAITS. However that doesn't mean Toady couldn't have fun with such a thing. For instance, these traits I'm talking about are probably really easy to program. Say we take the general serial killer profile. When young, likes to torture young animals causing much pain and possibly death. A child could easily be programed to take certain exploratory routes in personality traits from birth to adult that reflect tis. Of course I'm not all knowing and I don't appreciate people coming to me thinking I don't know anything without contributing much themselves. It's an Idea that requires a lot of thought, surely. Also, Toady Ones got most of the basic framework for this idea already laid out. I just thought it would lead to interesting happenings in the forts based on the idea of evolving dwarves and the best and probably preferred way would be done sort of like a questionnaire you would see in Dragon Warrior 3. in a network of possible paths certain combinations would create interesting social interactions in the forts

[DG]

Of course I'm not all knowing and I don't appreciate people coming to me thinking I don't know anything without contributing much themselves.

I hope you're just stating that generally, because it hasn't happened in this thread.

[tilly]

Generally.

[Wolfy]

good idea, bad time, if that would be added I'd hope it be later when more things are in place

I dont need that, its not a thing that must be in the game, and would take up space of stuff that IMO and toddys is (I'm refering to his arcs which i more or less agree with