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[Forumsdwarf]

I've learned how to train up my Marksdwarves, but I'm curious first what the best class of melee weapons are and second what the best practice weapons are of that category.
And if hammers aren't the best, since I still need to train Marksdwarves in hammering what's the best practice hammer?  Stone?  Rubber mallet?  Nerf bat?

[Capntastic]

Practice stuff is best made out of lower quality stuff, like silver.

And there is no best weapon, as they all work in different ways.   Axes cut off limbs, swords get a lot of criticals, spears impale stuff a lot.   A mix is good, unless you prefer something.

[Skanky]

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Weapons
Practice weapons should be made of wood or silver and be of the worst quality possible.

[Foxy111]

Good idea, but how do I get the dwarves to ignore the top quality steel stuff and practice with lousy wooden weapons?

[Skanky]

Forbid them, or put them in a locked room.

[BurnedToast]

IMHO for fortress mode hammers (or maces, as far as I can tell they are identical) are the best weapon, thanks to high damage, no stuck ins, and no messy severs to clean up.

Spears are probably second (unless you have undead on your map). Same damage as a sword and very slightly less then an axe, high crit boost makes them good vs large creatures. No messy severs to clean up. The only real disadvantage is they get stuck in alot, and dwarves only twist (which is useless vs undead, as is the organ damage). If you have alot of undead on your map, they are the worst weapon though.

Swords and axes come in last, and are more or less equal - axes to a little more damage, swords have a higher crit boost. I'd say axes are better if you have undead, swords otherwise.

Keep in mind that the differences are really rather minor - any weapon and work. I usually use axes even though I feel they are the worst weapon, just because they seem more dwarven to me. Crossbows are, by far, stronger then any melee weapon (bolts are basically ranged spears at this point).

[Foxy111]

And is it still correct that marksdwarves who are out of ammo wield their crossbow as if it were a hammer?

[Entropy]

I put all my recruits in armor and shields and train them as wrestlers for a while.  Then, after they become reasonable wrestlers, give them hammers.  Only when they turn from a wrestler to a hammer are they judged fit for battle.  By this time they should have pretty good armor and shield skills as well as at competent hammer skill.  

They are then sent into battle as front line troops with hammer and shield.  They quickly smash limbs and knock the enemy around.  

Just before a dwarf becomes a hammerlord, I switch him to crossbow. Some I get in time, some I do not.  This gives me a mix of great melee troops with marksdwarfs who can totally decemate the enemy, even if they run out of bolts and charge headlong into the fray.

THAT is why I train melee in hammers - so my marksdwarf doesnt get killed when he goes bashing goblins in the head with his crossbow.

That and it makes cleanup a little easier.

[axus]

Yeah, wrestling is the most useful melee weapon to start off with.  I like to do Hammer -> marksdwarf also, but that's usually too slow to deal with the forces that come.  

I'll have a few dwarves or immigrants as hunters, they pick up some skill that way and I'll get bones for marks-training.

[InquisitiveIdiot]

There are advantages to every melee weapon, but the best place to use them is by far weapon traps.  I prefer to use bludgeon damage  at first, for its raw, massive damage.  Two traps with five war hammers each are more than enough to scare off the first few sieges, and further traps built from the weapons of the fallen outpace additional siege force growth.

Raising a melee army can be fun.  But it's also time-consuming, expensive, risky, frustrating, and ultimately nowhere near as effective as a large, serrated disk in the gut.

[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by InquisitiveIdiot:
<STRONG>There are advantages to every melee weapon, but the best place to use them is by far weapon traps.  I prefer to use bludgeon damage  at first, for its raw, massive damage.  Two traps with five war hammers each are more than enough to scare off the first few sieges, and further traps built from the weapons of the fallen outpace additional siege force growth.

Raising a melee army can be fun.  But it's also time-consuming, expensive, risky, frustrating, and ultimately nowhere near as effective as a large, serrated disk in the gut.</STRONG>

Why not use the special trap weapons? they only take 1 bar now (they used to take 2 in the 2d version) and are better in every way then a normal weapon.

The only reason to use a normal weapon is if you have a ton laying around after a goblin siege, imo. Even then I'd rather melt them and make trap weapons unless I need the traps RIGHT NOW.

[Skanky]

That would also have the benefit of converting imported metal items (ie: goblin weapons) into fortress-produced items, so your fortress' net worth will go up.

[InquisitiveIdiot]

quote:Why not use the special trap weapons? they only take 1 bar now (they used to take 2 in the 2d version) and are better in every way then a normal weapon.

The only reason to use a normal weapon is if you have a ton laying around after a goblin siege, imo. Even then I'd rather melt them and make trap weapons unless I need the traps RIGHT NOW.

Half irony, seeing goblins get killed with their comrades' weapons, half imagination, picturing a spring loaded sledgehammer, but mostly laziness and reusability.  Unlike military dwarves, a good trap system is amazingly robust and needs neither a nursemaid nor a min/maxer to be effective.

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: InquisitiveIdiot ]

[polpoint]

traps are too cheap - it is too boring when I use them - expecially long hallways packed full of them. It is much more satisfying to swarm your unarmed and untrained dwarves into the fire breathing dragon and watch the slaughter that ensues. (don't even get me started on the cheap of all cheapness - cage traps!)