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Author Topic: Volcano, magma, and obsidian casting/obsidian fortress advice (also evil biomes)  (Read 2348 times)

Snaake

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So, an initial forum search in the DF mode discussion section didn't of course really turn up anything, searches in this forum turned up a bunch of more specific info, thanks to which I could make some guesses about this stuff, but I thought I'd make a new thread anyway and consolidate some of the info in one place. Oh, and the wiki either doesn't even mention or isn't very exact/unambiguous about this stuff, mostly. So yea, I'm looking for clarifications/info on a bunch of stuff regarding the things in the thread title.

Background: my most recent fort has a volcano, sand and clay (and regular soil), is mostly wilderness but with some flat, only-soil&no metals haunted mountains to the NW (no idea what they'll do, I've only embarked&saved). The other 2 biomes have some wood, flux stone but only deep metals, so I foresee obsidian, earthenware and green glass aplenty, since I don't like to dig very deep right away. Brought a lot of bronze ores, so that should help with the metal.

Some of the questions are about dumping into magma, some arise from my plans to cast a cube of magma that I'll carve my aboveground fortress out of, maybe later doing something similar for at least a section of the underground fortress too. And the slightly-less-related-to-the-other-topics-but-relevant-in-my-embark section is about evil biomes and their effects.

So, onto the questions (might not remember everything at once of course):
Regarding magma and item destruction...
1. Do all volcanoes/magma pipes/pools have semi-molten rock at the bottom, for every tile of the cross-section of the magma pipe? (as I understand it, SMR destroys anything that lands on it, completely)?
2. Partially/Maybe the same as above: What gets destroyed upon dumping into magma, when the magma is natural, ie. magma sea/volcano/magma pipe?
3. What gets destroyed when dumped into magma that's been moved into artificial reservoirs/channels?
Regarding obsidian casting...
4. Does it matter if you dump water onto magma or magma onto water?
5. If I pour some water into a deep artificial reservoir of magma (or vice versa, see previous question), does the obsidian form at the bottom, or at the top? Does it matter if the obsidian-to-be would be supported, ie. does it form at the top at the edges, but the bottom otherwise? If it is/can be cast at the edges at the top, can this be used to block up the volcano's top z-level?
6. Is steam still harmless?
7. The wiki mentions the consequences for items in a square that gets obsidian cast in it ("most non-magma safe items are destroyed"), but what about channeled/dug ramps, constructions, and other stuff (buildings?)? If/When I dig out the obsidian, will the constructions become visible again? Will their materials keep haunting my stocks screen, or will they get destroyed completely?
8. I was planning to carve my aboveground fortress out of cast obsidian for smoothing&engraving. Will rooms dug out in the towers/buildings in the aboveground fort count as dark subterranean, or inside light aboveground, or what? A possible but not certain-to-be-implemented idea was to have the entire aboveground fort be a roofed-in (well, the roof is cast, but anyway) bunker, but this would suck if it would basically cause just about everyone to be cave-adapted (my training barracks usually end up in aboveground sections of the fort to avoid this).
9. Should I/How soon should I take precautions against critters coming up the volcano and attacking my fort?
Regarding the haunted mountains, and the FUN I'll have with that (it's my first embark to include an evil biome...)
10. I've read of fog that turns creatures into husks, (harmless?) rains of blood, and at least nauseating weather, and evil regions that renanimates any corpses in them to zombies. What other effects are possible from the weather (syndromes? contaminants that can spread the effects outside the area?)? 
11. I understand that the reanimation only occurs within the biome itself, although zombies (and creatures spawned in the haunted area) can wander outside. Can the weather wander outside the biome? Into my fort? Through doors/raised bridges? Does evil weather also spawn in the underground parts of that biome (in the caverns, maybe?)?
12. Are evil biome effects limited on severity depending on if the biome is sinister/haunted/terrifying? Is there always only one effect/how many/is there a limit to how many of the aforementioned (or not mentioned) can happen in one biome in an embark?
13. Regarding #10, I understand skeletal (giant) eagles are fun, hence the bunker idea in #8 :P Which brings me to this question: can spawned wildlife turn into husks/zombies, for a larger variety of flying undead creatures?
14. So we don't end on 13 (I'm not usually superstitious, but this is DF, and it's best to cover all my bases), I guess magma doesn't really do anything to any undead, other than set them on fire? What about goblins/other invaders - I guess it kills them and destroys their corpses and non-magma-safe equipment?

Others can of course feel free to add more questions. I'll try to keep this first post updated with answers and additional questions (please number them) for ease of looking up, and I guess as a price for making a new thread about this, I might add the best clarifications and new info to the wiki, too.
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Seikatsukan

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From your apparent level of knowledge, I'll be assuming you have checked the wiki's magma-safe materials list.

1. All natural volcanos and magma pipes end in SMR.
2. I don't know about SMR's behaviour, haven't gotten to it nor thrown anything over the lip of a volcano... yet.
3. Everything made of wood (excepting nether-cap), cloth, leather/bone(except from fire imps) will be almost automatically destroyed upon entering magma. Non-magma safe stone and metal items seem to become a molten pool of the material they were made of. From my experience, such pools remain, I've had molten floodgates stay around for years. There have been reports of they being able to re-form if cooled, have not tested it myself. Therefore, melting is not a definitive solution for the destruction of stone/metal items; atom-smash them.

As for obsidian farms, I've had a big stack of problems involving that. I'll save you some trouble: make sure [TEMPERATURE] is set to YES in your D_init.txt file before attempting to mine that obsidian.

4. As far as I know, it's the same. The wiki only mentions "contact". My current project involves dumping magma onto an ocean, but I haven't gotten to that part yet.
5. The obsidian should form on the point of contact, and collapse if it's not supported. One of my magma farms had a bridge for support (bad idea) and when one of the obsidian tiles was formed diagonally from the rest, it collapsed through the bridge. Was !!FUN!!.
6. No experience on it, but the wiki says so.
7. Every natural formation that becomes encased in obsidian is gone for good. It becomes solid obsidian, and you have to carve them out again. Wouldn't know about dwarf-made constructions, though.
8. Tiles that "become" obsidian seem to retain their previous Outside/inside status, but my open-sky farm only has one level of obsidian, so I don't know what happens to the z-level below. Let me do a little !!SCIENCE!! and I'll get back to you on that.
9. I've had a magma crab haunting my units list for quite a while, but it never tried to get out of the volcano itself. It could be that it needed LOS to one of my units to go ballistic. As for getting inside your fortress (for example, if you use magma-powered furnaces), placing an automated pump(s) in the middle of the pipe the magma has to go through will prevent them from getting that far.

Never embarked on an evil biome, so that's as far as I'll go.
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Lich180

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Spoiler (click to show/hide)

9. Its never too soon to make precautions. Floor over it, obsidianize it, do something if you are really worried. I usually don't have a problem with it, but then again I've never had a volcano in an evil embark. Magma crabs are a pain because of their ranged basalt blobs, but keep your dwarves away from the edge and everything will be fine.
 
10. The evil weather can do almost anything, from creating instant thralls/husks to making anything caught in it bleed to death instantly, or just making everything sleepy. Same for rain, although it can be totally harmless and just make a dwarf want to wash.

11. I've seen the weather get to the very edge of the biome, but disappate as soon as it leaves the evil area. The evil weather CAN enter your fort, but thats what closed drawbridges/walls are for. Not sure about fortifications, but they probably don't do anything to stop the fog/cloud/mists. Caverns are safe as far as I know, never seen evil weather there.

12. I don't think evil weather is limited to the surroundings. But the savagery of the area (haunted, sinister, terrifying) WILL affect what creatures and undead wander in.

13. Yes. Anything caught in the weather WILL have whatever effect applied, unless it is somehow immune. Watching a group of wild boar get killed by a mist cloud that made everything bleed out was fun.

14. Magma works, but undead have to burn for a LONG time before they succumb. !!Zombies!! are very Fun, although I've never dealt with them. They do work good if you ca manage to trap them and unleash them on sieges. Everything else magma is good for killing will still die, and their corpses / non-magma safe materials will melt.
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Seikatsukan

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Hey Snaake, I just did some !!SCIENCE!! for you, lost several dwarves in the process, and learned some nice things.

5. When water falls into a multi-z magma reservoir, obsidian forms in the place of the topmost magma, not below.
6. Steam is harmless, it seems to never go above 10042 degrees Urist (23ºC).
8. In my multi-z obsidian farm, the obsidian walls in the z-level below (which had been formed first) retained their Outside Light Above Ground status when another obsidian layer was cast on top. However, the parts of the lower z-level that were filled with magma but not turned into obsidian, and therefore still 7/7 magma, became Inside Light Above Ground when the magma above them became obsidian.  This would seem to indicate that the inner parts of your obsidian fort would all be Inside Light Above Ground, just as if you had dug them out and roofed over.

Also, another very interesting find is that, if [TEMPERATURE] is OFF in the D_init.txt file, at least dwarves and cats don't die immediately when in direct contact with shallow magma. I proceeded to pit a cat into my magma moat and it lived for years down there. On turning temperature back on, the kitty combusted instantly. I don't know if dwarves would drown when submerged in 7/7 magma, but cats surely don't.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Quote from: Naryar
It's simply an escaped demon posing as a god. Still a badass killing machine, but nothing your dwarves can't handle.
Quote from: �
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

Snaake

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Their sacrifices shall not be in vain, nor forgotten.

Seikatsukan: damn, I was hoping to not build an atom-smasher this time, just volcano-dump all my junk. I'm enough of a perfectionist to not want molten pools of random stone in the volcano though. And I'll have to plan the obsidian-casting in a bit more detail, if I can't just make one big reservoir of magma and pour lots of water on it. :P

Lich180: the Volcano is on the other corner of the embark relative to the haunted biome, and even the closest parts of my fort should be at least a couple of dozen tiles away. So I should be safe from the direct effects of the evil weather, barring hunters wandering over there of course?

(If caverns are safe, I guess areas dug out under the evil surface area will be safe too...)

P.S. How do you see the temperature of tiles/objects?
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i2amroy

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P.S. How do you see the temperature of tiles/objects?
DFHack has a utility that allows you to find the temperature of whatever tile your cursor is on.
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Snaake

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Thought it might be that. But (last I checked) DFHack wasn't updated to 34.11 :(
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chronicpayne

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