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Author Topic: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!  (Read 1087 times)

Captain Crazy

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Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« on: May 25, 2012, 03:02:08 pm »

Bloodsport  is pretty horrid in this non-ASCII world, what with dogfighting and cockfighting and gladiatorial matches. But I think it would be very much fitting for a Dwarf Fortress, as it is believed that dwarfs are bastards.

As of now, the only characters that benefit from slaughter are the warriors who kill and the player, who watches in glee. This addition would allow other civilians to enjoy slaughter from a distance, to boost happiness and do away with some of those caged goblins.

The player would set an 'arena' zone, with seats and a big enough area for the creatures to do battle. You could choose what creatures would do battle with whom, and as long as the character who dies is either an enemy, a neutral creature, a really shitty prisoner or a stray, dwarfs would enjoy the show. Examples would be Gladiator matches, where either two criminals are goaded into fighting each other or a steel-decked champion is sent to fight a POW goblin. You could do dog/bull/GCS baiting too, where one animal fights another chained one.

This mechanic could be useful because:
 * It does away with unnecessary strays
 * The leftovers can be butchered for meat
 * Cheap, bloody, absolutely Dwarfish entertainment
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Itsdavyjones

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2012, 03:14:36 pm »

I could see this happening in some of the cases, like goblin vs. goblin in gladiatorial battles, and the victor gets to leave.  But really, shouldn't dwarf be past that? I mean, this isn't the roman empire.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2012, 03:17:07 pm »

As a standard thing to be said to new posters, remember to search for similar topics in the search bar in the top right of the screen.  You can punch the magnifying glass as an advanced search, and pay attention to whether you are searching a thread, a forum, or the whole forums.  Also, searching is Boolean AND (as opposed to Google's OR) - every word you punch in has to be in a post in the exact way you spell it for it to return a hit, so the less words you search for at a time, the more likely you are to get a hit.

If you find threads with very similar themes to the ones you are going to post, we ask that you either read and incorporate those other topics into your own if your own diverges significantly enough, or that you contribute to already-existing threads if they are similar enough.  There is no penalty for "thread necroing" so long as you are doing more than just saying "bump", and are adding something.  This is because, over time, some topics are brought up again and again, and people grow tired of arguing over the same topics that get argued into a stalemate time and again.  By contributing to an already-existing thread of some substance where those arguments have already taken place, things can move beyond those arguments.

In this vein, it is a good idea to avoid "My List Of Suggestions" types of threads.  Threads should have topic lines that let you tell what's in them, or else people will assume it is nothing but every idea that came off the top of an excited poster's head, and those are typically going to be many of the same ideas that came off the last person's head.  Posting long, complex topics with multiple sub-topics under a single thread is fine, so long as it is guided by a reasonable topic.  If you have plenty of thoughtful things to say about multiple different suggestions, then odds are, you'd do better with multiple threads.

Likewise, it's worth looking at the devpages, and Toady's long-term goals, to make sure that you aren't suggesting something Toady was already planning on doing, anyway.  Starting a thread to go into detail about something Toady is planning is fine, but just "we sould do X" when X is already on the devpages becomes redundant.

There are a great many suggestions on the suggestion forum, and so there is more value in arguing through and hashing out the details and implications of a suggestion, and what this will change about the game, than there is for simply throwing out a concept that the game might incorporate.  Most suggestions will not be acted upon for years, if ever, and as such, there is a far greater value in taking the time to fully explore every avenue of discussion with a given topic than there is in simply brainstorming as many individual ideas as one can.

The Suggestions Forum is based upon a give-and-take of ideas, so if you want to be listened to, you have to be willing to listen to others in reading what has been discussed before you, and responding with constructive comments.



Last thread made on this subject was a little less than three weeks ago:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108793.msg3253101#msg3253101
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104697.msg3096931#msg3096931
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100109.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92909.msg2603276#msg2603276
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92695.msg2594763#msg2594763
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73684.msg1825948#msg1825948
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4082.msg58406#msg58406

That was just the stuff from the first two of 8 pages of suggestions that came up from searching for "arena"
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2012, 03:51:24 pm »

[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]

These are from the dwarven ethics. Any gladiator-style fights would probably need to be nonlethal and require volunteers to follow them.
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Captain Crazy

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2012, 04:16:11 pm »

[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]

These are from the dwarven ethics. Any gladiator-style fights would probably need to be nonlethal and require volunteers to follow them.

[ETHIC:IGNORE_ETHICS:ACCEPTABLE]
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Carp McDwarfEater

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2012, 04:18:38 pm »

[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]

These are from the dwarven ethics. Any gladiator-style fights would probably need to be nonlethal and require volunteers to follow them.

There's also an ethic saying it's okay to kill enemies. There's a difference between tying a rope around a goblin throat and letting him choke as you slowly lower him into lava, and having a soldier pretty much just execute the POW in front of a crowd. I don't see how arenas would conflict with the ethics if you only pitted animals and POWs in them.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2012, 04:38:30 pm »

As for ethics, you can already have dwarves "delight in slaughter", as a great many of the already-existing threads happily point out. 

That's part of the point of linking back to the half-dozen other threads on this subject: To tell people not to repeat the same arguments that we keep having over and over and over again. 

They aren't just there for the original posters, they're there for anyone who wants to post to recognize that this topic has been discussed before, and that you should learn from history so as not to endlessly repeat it.



Dwarves can be violent little things, and you can already have staged combat between recruits and whatever critters you managed to capture, if only for training purposes. 

They aren't killing one of their own entity members, in this case, they are killing a wild animal that is loose and free and able to fight back. 
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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Captain Crazy

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2012, 08:28:27 pm »

Exactly, NW. I just want observers to enjoy the show too.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2012, 08:38:47 am »

[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:UNTHINKABLE]

These are from the dwarven ethics. Any gladiator-style fights would probably need to be nonlethal and require volunteers to follow them.

[ETHIC:IGNORE_ETHICS:ACCEPTABLE]

[ETHIC:POINT_OUT_OBVIOUS:ACCEPTABLE]
Our own ethics have nothing to do with what dwarves do. At least, we shouldn't have features that encourage the abuse of dwarves' ethical values.
NW_Kohaku: I don't know about you, but forcing two dwarves to fight each other to the death sounds like a violation of dwarven ethics, as does forcing a goblin to fight a dwarf. If something like this was implemented, it should involve animals and volunteers. (Goblin volunteers can be gained by offering the goblins a choice between execution or a small chance of freedom by being a gladiator. I imagine most would choose the latter.)
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Footkerchief

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Re: Dwarven Entertainment: Bloodsport!
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 10:59:41 am »

Last thread made on this subject was a little less than three weeks ago:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108793.msg3253101#msg3253101
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104697.msg3096931#msg3096931
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100109.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92909.msg2603276#msg2603276
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92695.msg2594763#msg2594763
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73684.msg1825948#msg1825948
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4082.msg58406#msg58406

That was just the stuff from the first two of 8 pages of suggestions that came up from searching for "arena"

Merged the newer links into the previous tagged list:
This is a very popular suggestion:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73684.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61765.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5166.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32619.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53648.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2912.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=27621.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92695.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4082.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92909.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108793.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104697.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100109.0

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