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Author Topic: Are carving knives bugged?  (Read 12220 times)

Uzu Bash

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2012, 11:10:46 am »

I found a silver boning knife useful for extending the battle just to develop skill, but a masterwork sharpened rock is a better weapon. It's much easier to find a good quality shortsword, at least this version.

Whips in DF don't really behave like whips in real life.  They deal blunt damage with a tiny contact area and an insanely high velocity, which means they behave more like tiny supersonic hammers (I.E., bullets). 
That's what whips are, the cracking noise is the sound of breaking the speed barrier. It's not the whip that deals the damage, it's the sonic boom around the popper. At least for leather whips -- combat whips made of metal don't break the sound barrier, but can cut through engine blocks.
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2012, 12:11:53 pm »

I did some testing in arena mode, by slashing at the right limbs of an unconscious giant with an iron short sword, and slashing at the left limbs with an iron slicing knife. Tester was a human with grand master in fighter, swordsman, and knife user.

The knife consistently cut deeper on slashes, often reaching the bone when the short sword was stuck in muscle or fat.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2012, 03:38:47 pm »

Knives = Spears in DF

Broseph Stalin

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2012, 08:07:51 am »

I did some testing in arena mode, by slashing at the right limbs of an unconscious giant with an iron short sword, and slashing at the left limbs with an iron slicing knife. Tester was a human with grand master in fighter, swordsman, and knife user.

The knife consistently cut deeper on slashes, often reaching the bone when the short sword was stuck in muscle or fat.
Did you test it against armor? I've noticed that when the target is wearing clothes the attack either ends up deflected or slices the body part clean off.

rtg593

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2012, 02:04:25 am »

Whips in DF don't really behave like whips in real life.  They deal blunt damage with a tiny contact area and an insanely high velocity, which means they behave more like tiny supersonic hammers (I.E., bullets).

... How is a 1 inch by 2 inch leather end hitting you at supersonic speeds NOT a tiny contact area and insanely high velocity? :p

But yeah, I can't see a metal whip going supersonic like the leather ones do.
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Alastar

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2012, 03:32:37 am »

The main problem is rigidity. There's a difference between getting the tip to supersonic speed and 1kg of rigid metal hitting point-on at supersonic speed.  The game gives up at this, whips as modeled ought to go right through a dwarf-sized target with lots of ugly effects through hydrostatic shock.

Since only the tip of the whip would impart its energy, it's modeled more realistically if we reduce whip size to 2ish (if a regular whip) or 10ish (if a chain whip but that probably wouldn't have this high a velocity multiplier).
Leather whips with reduced size would still be good at disabling through pain but fairly nonlethal and quite ineffective against armour.
Metal whips with reduced size (assuming a bullet-like tip) will disable through pain and chip bone, but be inferior to other blunt weapons against armour.

*

Regarding knives: Penetration ability seems to depend mostly on energy/contact area. Needle-like stabs go straight through anything instead of being turned aside. Same applies to slashes: Short swords have 25 times the contact area of carving knives for slashing attacks but only twice the mass. If penetration is limited by the force applied rather than reach (which is usually the case - if it wasn't, a stronger material wouldn't be of any benefit), the findings make perfect sense.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 03:34:22 am by Alastar »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2012, 04:11:52 am »

P.S. Now I want to make a dual-whip wielding character :P.

You should try dual shield-wielding. With legitimate skill in shield use and misc. object user, you'll be knocking heads with enough gusto to make glorious boxing champions jealous. It takes some skill on your part to stay out of trouble, though, as you'll be down for the count if you lose an arm or two or get surrounded. Can't really disarm them unless you get a good bone-crushing shot in on their hands and won't be severing nerves, so they'd get the chance to tear you to shreds.
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Broseph Stalin

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Re: Are carving knives bugged?
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2012, 05:59:45 am »


... How is a 1 inch by 2 inch leather end hitting you at supersonic speeds NOT a tiny contact area and insanely high velocity? :p

But yeah, I can't see a metal whip going supersonic like the leather ones do.
Because the entire weight of the weapon is being used. Imagine getting hit with the tip of a whip and painfully discovering that the tip weighed as much as the entire whip.
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