Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Tie ins between game modes and improvements.  (Read 1159 times)

Jeoshua

  • Bay Watcher
  • God help me, I think I may be addicted to modding.
    • View Profile
Tie ins between game modes and improvements.
« on: April 19, 2012, 11:52:11 am »

My idea of the BIGGEST thing DF needs is a tighter tying together of the three "game modes" as I see them:

Fortress
Adventure
Worldgen.

"How is worldgen a game type?" you say?  Easilly, it controls the entire world in an abstracted way.  It has it's rules, it's own displays, etc.  It's not very interactive, but it's a game mode.

Now, consider this.  What would happen if, when in Adventure mode, Worldgen continued running at a much slowed rate.  People moved from place to place, megabeasts attacked, wars were fought.  It wouldn't take too much processing power to have the world right outside of where the player exists keep being generated.  It takes maybe 30 seconds per game year to calculate the events for a 256x256 large world with a population exceeding 3 million people, on my computer.  To calculate the events of a single day would take almost no time at all, and when you consider that game day usually takes about 5 minutes to play in game?  30 seconds / 365 days / 5 minutes = negligible calculation time.

And the world would be so much more lively!  It would lead to the future possibilities of being able to SEE the wars (which currently you could not really see), watch sites being placed.  Right now you could probably only leave a place, then come back after a year to see it has changed... which would actually be freaking amazing.  Just keep the same seed and roll the dice again.

===

Second tie in between the modes: Fortress Adventurers.  Put your site on hold to take an adventurer out.  A random able bodied Dwarf from your fortress would be selected and set out to pasture.  Your fortress would basically be paused besides some basic automations, you could buy/sell/steal whatever you need for your adventure from what's already at your Fortress (that your Adventurer spawns at), and could set out!  Or not!  Go down into the caverns from your 50z high staircase... Recruit your whole army as followers and set out to take out those megabeasts that KEEP coming from that cave you embarked 3 tiles away from.  Etc etc.  Then, when your adventurer dies or you retire him, you can start the fortress back up again.

===

Third tie in, but this is only really about one game mode.  Drop out of worldgen and change settings, then start it back up again.  Change the site cap, population cap.  Place more civilizations.  Place more megabeasts.  Basically put the player in control of the world generation process and make it into a TRUE game mode.  Declare, as God Almighty, and a site be placed... here.  Make it a tower.  Etc etc.  Think about it for a good solid minute and think about how f-n awesome that would be.
Logged
I like fortresses because they are still underground.

NW_Kohaku

  • Bay Watcher
  • [ETHIC:SCIENCE_FOR_FUN: REQUIRED]
    • View Profile
Re: Tie ins between game modes and improvements.
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 03:34:09 pm »

You know that most of this is already planned, and on the devpages, right?

Quote from: Release 5
Changing populations, food use and other world gen stuff moved to actual play

Fortress retirement has been touched upon frequently:

Spoiler: quotes (click to show/hide)

It's only the last part that's not already outright declared a part of the development plans. 

That said, I don't think we need an outright "divine intervention" mode in the game, as that kind of ruins the whole "simulation" part of it.

That said, there have been several "Kingdom Mode" types of suggestions:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64249.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76667.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=24453.0
Logged
Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare

Babylon

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tie ins between game modes and improvements.
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 06:24:07 pm »

world gen continuing during adventure or fortress mode would be really nice, being able to drop back into worldgen after abandoning a fortress or retiring an adventurer would also be nice.
Logged

ravaught

  • Bay Watcher
  • Anybody seen mah beer?
    • View Profile
Re: Tie ins between game modes and improvements.
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 07:18:43 pm »

Not sure if any of you remember the old game ActRaiser, but it had a system that would allow you to go from god mode to player mode. Of course, I could see it working as a 4 tier zoom style feature.

Tier I - Most abstract, controlling landmasses and such. Maybe causing natural disasters or forming up the world somehow(Populace)
Tier II - Kingdom mode would allow you to negotiate trade agreements and such that would impact your entire kingdom(Civ/SimCity/Rome/Ceasar)
Tier III - Fortress Mode, as is
Tier IV - Adventure mode.

I could see it, and it could work, but it won't happen. There is WAY too much development time involved in that for one person to ever hope to accomplish in any realistic time frame. I think what Toady already has planned is the most realistic vision for a one many dev team.
Logged
..because making sense and having FUN are not mutually exclusive.

Jeoshua

  • Bay Watcher
  • God help me, I think I may be addicted to modding.
    • View Profile
Re: Tie ins between game modes and improvements.
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 09:18:40 pm »

You are all going WAY beyond what I had intended.  I merely wished one could stop generation, tweak already existing limiting parameters, and then start calculation again.

"Hmm, it's been 100 years since a new settlement was formed.  I should have set the caps higher.  Oh well, time to exit out, change the numbers, use the same seed, and wait 20 more minutes for it to get back to this level"

!!OR!!

"Hmm, it's been 100 years since a new settlement was formed."
<ESC>
(E)dit
Change a few parameters
<ESC>
(C)ontinue

The tower thing was just an aside, really.
Logged
I like fortresses because they are still underground.

Escapism

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Tie ins between game modes and improvements.
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 07:18:23 am »

It would be pretty awesome if you could merge fortress and adventurer mode somehow, and it would also fit with DF:s "theme" of generalizing as much as possible. You can already do that in arena mode, to a certain extent. What I mean is that you could both, as Jeoshua said, go on an adventure and assume control of a single dwarf from your fortress, but you could also do the opposite and use an adventurer to gather up followers with whom you could form a settlement. This would also provide an excellent way of handling raiding parties and such. Simply assign a leader and the dwarves you want to use in your campaign, and then assume control of the leader in adventure mode. Of course, this would require handling a lot of other problems, such as how your fortress would behave while you don't control it, allowing more advanced interactions with your followers and having military clashes compose of more than simply zerging the enemy.
Logged

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: Tie ins between game modes and improvements.
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 07:28:12 am »

Planned. Try expanding on some specific stuff, after reading the...whichever page it is that lists development goals.
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.