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[hawkeye_de]

Would be curious if here also some guys are interested in (modern) naval simulations, especially http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Waters?
Unfortunately, those sims are hardly recognized these days; thus they seem not have a bright future

[Imofexios]

Sure, why not. Any sim would be great in cool group but i think yer right that there aint many out there.
If someone know any other cool sim i would like to know

[Lord Dullard]

Yeah, I remember when war sims in general were extremely popular when I was a little kid. Definitely less so now. I think the reason is simply because back in those days, it was mostly middle-aged men who owned computers, and a lot of them were interested in war simulation. Not so much the younger generation.

I'd be interested in checking this out.

[Robsoie]

I remember spending hours back in the days with 688(i) Hunter/Killer from the guys that later made Dangerous Waters.
The fact it was about simulating "modern" (in comparison to ww2) subs was what attracted me to it, as my favorite subsim ever ( Red Storm Rising) was all about this too.

I skipped Sub Command , that was 688 HK followup (that had much needed higher res panel as in 688 HK it was sometime hard to read the sonars graphics) that featured 2 more subs, using the same engine as 688 HK, for reason i don't remember despite i was interested (especially in the Akula that had some interesting weaponry).

And wanted to buy that Dangerous Water (a big upgrade of SubCom, while always using the same engine again, with new sub, and for once playable warship and aircraft), but after reading some tales about it being very unstable, i refrained until recently.


I have read that Sonalyst ceased to patch it years ago, but is stable now with mods ?
It's a very great game, but i still have crashes from time to time, especially when there are some surface battle between opposed fleets.

(Edit : oh my bad, i was thinking about SubCom, it's Subcom i bought a few years ago, the one with "only" 3 subs not Dangerous Waters )

It's sad that there's no modern subs simulation anymore, it seems ww2 sub sims are still the most popular, maybe it's because modern subs are not about visually acquiring your target anywmore, but are about spending your time watching sonars graphics and calculating fire solution in the TMA , certainly less attractice to gamers, but once you are into it, it's really interesting.

The bips about a torpedo trying to acquire your sub can be a very immersive moment despite the minor visuals.

[hawkeye_de]

Dangerous waters is pretty stable, main issues are mainly some issues with graphic cards (some users reported this) but the vast majority of users has no problems. I think it even runs under Linux ( Wine)...but I'd need check this.

You get it now very cheap via steam.

I do not want to advertise it but there is really no better modern naval sim out there...you get actually 7 platforms modeled in detail (anti-submarine heli/plane, frigate and a bunch of nuclear / non-nuclear subs) and the manuals have more than 600 pages...

There are two mods out there...one is more stable and the focus is on a realistic database/sensors modelling, the other mod heavily alters the game...adds a bunch of new (playable) platforms, mostly Russian platforms but also the new German submarine type 212... improves the AI etc...but this mod is not for newbies...

[Robsoie]

Subcom had a big mod ( SCX/SCU) that added many platforms and revised a lot the AI too, but unfortunately it broke nearly all missions (considered it changed radar and sonar detections, changed the weapon loadout to many platforms etc...) so you had to play missions specially created for it.

I remember by example a mission in which you had to sink 2 Kilos before they catched a cargo ship.
In unmodded SC it wasn't easy (as Kilos are very stealthy) and you had few time to detect them before the cargo ship arrived on zone, but it still was possible, did it a few times.

But if you installed SCX/SCU, as soon as the mission started, immediately the Kilos were launching surface missiles at the very far away cargo ship.
So in one way it was made too easy because you then knew exactly where the Kilos could be by detecting the launching, but in the same time it made the mission impossible to complete, because the would destroyed at 100% surely the cargo ship before you torpedoes would be at more than 5 % of the distance between you and the Kilos.

Are Dangerous Water mods required mission specifically designed for them to avoid this problem, or are the changes still compatible with the campaign/missions ?

[Anvilfolk]

I'm not too into modern stuff, but you've got Naval War Artic Circle http://www.navalwargame.com/. Released just a few weeks ago, modern and apparently quite decent and hardcore.

[hawkeye_de]

Are Dangerous Water mods required mission specifically designed for them to avoid this problem, or are the changes still compatible with the campaign/missions ?

With the RA-Mod(similar like SCX) it is the same problem, although the original missions where adapted. The mission editor of DW is very sophisticated, so you can play your own created mission (a lot of possibilities to randomize stuff)...there is even a script language available, by which you can alter the behavior of individual platforms.

I'm not too into modern stuff, but you've got Naval War Artic Circle http://www.navalwargame.com/. Released just a few weeks ago, modern and apparently quite decent and hardcore.

I have to disagree...Naval War Arctic Circle is not a hardcore naval sim like Dangerous Waters or the indie-project http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=1101 , which might be released this year.

[SeaBee]

I haven't played a decent sim since Harpoon. Started with Harpoon Classic on Windows 3.1, though I'm really looking forward to seeing that new project hawkeye_de posted.

I had hopes for Naval War: Arctic Circle ... was rather disappointed. It isn't really a simulator, just a game that looks kind of like one.

Might give Dangerous Waters a go sometime, didn't realize it was more realistic than the normal crud. Looking at it now, they include some odd playable units ... an OHP-class FFG? Hope there are some mods for it, it looks worth a demo anyway. (Side note: most of the links to visit the forum, buy the game, or get more information are broken on the official website.)

[Robsoie]

Sonalyst subsims (688 , Sub Command, Dangerous Water) are truly hardcore on the level of simulation (Sonalyst has used their engine for military sims too), so you're going to spend time listening to your various sonars to find a contact and evaluate its speed, checking the accumulated graphs to find a contact, spend time in TMA station to calculate firing solutions according to all your marked contacts while trying to figure out from their various reported positions where are they heading, and at what speed.

Not a game for everyone i think, it's more impersonal than a ww2 subsim , but more accurate on the simulation. Good idea to try a demo before buying.

While in a Harpoon game you're more of some kind of global admiral that gives order and wait for reports to multiple fleets and bases, you're not in direct control of each stations of a ship/sub.

About Harpoon, i have read a lot of good about a game named "Command : Modern Air/Naval Operations" (previously named "Red Pill" ) that looks to be a remake of Harpoon , trying to keep the level of depth instead of going "gamey" :
http://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=1101

There's too the freeware "Global Conflict Blue 2" that i tried 2 years ago, it was a bit lacking content then, so i imagine it may be more advanced now, and had some similarities to Harpoon but reminded me of Fleet Command that i played the demo from several years ago.
http://www.gcblue.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

[hawkeye_de]

I haven't played a decent sim since Harpoon. Started with Harpoon Classic on Windows 3.1, though I'm really looking forward to seeing that new project hawkeye_de posted.

I had hopes for Naval War: Arctic Circle ... was rather disappointed. It isn't really a simulator, just a game that looks kind of like one.

Might give Dangerous Waters a go sometime, didn't realize it was more realistic than the normal crud. Looking at it now, they include some odd playable units ... an OHP-class FFG? Hope there are some mods for it, it looks worth a demo anyway. (Side note: most of the links to visit the forum, buy the game, or get more information are broken on the official website.)

the main forum is www.subsim.com now. There you also find the main two mods. If you've questions, just ask . The FFG is really a cool platform, you have also control over its ASW helicopter.

Yes, Sonalysts currently seem not developing commercial sims at the moment. I think this is also the reason that they do not take care much about their website. The hope is if they create a new version of the Dangerous Waters engine for non-commercial customers, they might create again a commercial one.

I mean if people are interested in modern naval stuff they should really think about buying this gem...not only they get still a superb game (only the graphics are outdated) but in the end Sonalysts will to have make a finanical decision if it is worth to invest in the commercial sim market again...