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[Leafsnail]

Yeah everyone is a selfish douchebag to some degree.

This is why terms like "selfish douchebag" seem unproductive to me.  It's trying to hold people to unattainable standards.  Selfish on its own for individual acts works fine.

[kaijyuu]

Yeah everyone is a selfish douchebag to some degree.

This is why terms like "selfish douchebag" seem unproductive to me.  It's trying to hold people to unattainable standards.  Selfish on its own for individual acts works fine.

My philosophy is that shooting for an unreachable target will get you closer than aiming to miss.


If there's a problem with expectations, I think it's being too harsh on failure to meet them. Instead of punishing people, we should dust them off and encourage them to do better. Even in the cases of being a jerk. So yeah, maybe calling someone a "selfish douchebag" is too far, but it should still be communicated that the behavior is unacceptable and there's always room for improvement.

[Darvi]

I have doubts that anyone calculates the benefits of helping others before deciding to be altruistic.

Hello.

[Fenrir]

Remember the context of that post. MorleyDev was insisting that, if one examined every selfless act closely enough, one would find benefits for the actor. My point was that, even though he finds those benefits upon close inspection, people perform those acts without seeing those benefits, and thus do not peform the acts for those selfish benefits.

You do seem to be implying that you are in it for yourself, and, therefore, would not help others if there was no gain to be had for you.

[EveryZig]

If you analyse every single "selfless" act in enough depth you'll find a reason for them to act as a result of self-interest, or at least genetic interest. The closest you get to exceptions tend to involve extreme brainwashing, such as military service.

Selflessness is a cute little lie we tell ourselves and society, I've seen no support for it. And I don't think it somehow dampens or darkness a single damn thing anybody has done.

But I doubt we'll agree on this.

Do you count 'feeling good about yourself' as self interest? (I could see it counting either way myself.)

An example of a (quite minor, but the principles still apply) kind action that gives no possible benefit other than personal satisfaction would be niceness towards minor characters in video games. (Specifically, in older single player games where you know there is no karma or relationship system those nameless NPCs will never show up again.)

Of course, that action is likely done out of habits that spring from more directly self-inetested alturism, but that is still very indirect motivation aside from the 'feel good' aspect.

[MorleyDev]

Well what counts as "feel good about yourself"? For example, if it's still an altruistic act if it feeds the ego? What if I become a surgeon because I have a god complex which is fed by saving lives on the operating table? Is that "very selfish" or "normal altruistic selfish"? And why do people consider "feel good because makes me feel like a god" worse than just "feels good because warm fuzzy"?

These concepts have so much vagueness it's rather annoying xD

[Leafsnail]

If there's a problem with expectations, I think it's being too harsh on failure to meet them. Instead of punishing people, we should dust them off and encourage them to do better. Even in the cases of being a jerk. So yeah, maybe calling someone a "selfish douchebag" is too far, but it should still be communicated that the behavior is unacceptable and there's always room for improvement.

Calling someone a douchebag doesn't tell them that there's room for improvement though.  It insults their character directly rather than the action and immediately antagonizes them.  Which would perhaps be ok for major transgressions, but not for things which everyone does from time to time.

[EveryZig]

And why do people consider "feel good because makes me feel like a god" worse than just "feels good because warm fuzzy"?

But what if gods feel warm and fuzzy? 

Really through, I would agree that they are more or less functionally the same.