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Author Topic: Fortress design  (Read 2394 times)

tilly

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Fortress design
« on: February 18, 2012, 12:15:12 am »

 Hello, people of the DF forum. Today I invite you to converse about fortress designs. Personally I always feel at odds with myself when beginning a new fortress and I hope to provide new players with some of DF's elite with some cool and interesting Ideas in fortress designs and concepts. I haven't seen anything like this in the forum and think it would be a fun topic so I do hope you will participate!

 First let me begin with saying how much I appreciate ToadOne's relentless effort to bring us a game of higher quality then any pumped out by the mainstream. Thanks Toady you're one in a million. I plan on donating to you as soon as I possibly can to support this amazing idea.

My first concept that I found to be very useful as a trap was to make a narrow hallway leading into the fort. Somewhere within this hallway I would channel out a good 10 levels and place bridge over top and cages around the bridge. This greatly reduces the chance something will get through. Even if they were able to pass through the cages and make it onward I'd retract the bridge reducing the numbers more. Bottle necking the enterence to my fortress complete with door was the last mode of defence. At this point there isnt ever more then 2 enemies and my army takes care of them.

Anywho, please feel free to share any kind of fortress design you would like. Things that work and things that don't are all great. Thanks!
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 12:23:19 am »

Cramming above groundy-themed ideas here, plus I think narrow corridors aren't too new of an idea... Though the retractable bottleneck is certainly something we don't see often :P

wierd

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 12:32:11 am »

An interesting thing you can do, is use bridges spanning a deep pit with pressure plate activators to continually change the path into the fortress.

That is to say, the invaders have a "clear" path over the bridges and into the fortress. As they walk the path, they step on a pressure plate, which closes the way they came in (bridge goes up), and the way they were going in, but opens a new, distant route. They take that route, which actually takes them away from the fortress on the new path. There, they step on another plate, which again blocks off the way they came, and redirects them further.

By clever application of this approach, an "endless detour" can be created.

Bonus if you put serrated disc traps in the hallways they have to path through. Blocking off the exit prevents escape, progressing forward forces the detour.

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Araph

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 12:34:08 am »

One thing I always love to do with fortresses is build a pristine, above ground monument to dwarfiness. Typically I make a granite block tower or something, all symmetrical with high quality everything. I rarely get far along those projects, though. :P

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Starver

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 12:56:07 am »

I've only just scraped the surface, insofar as my initial 0.34.01 fort is concerned[1], but the first into-the-side-of-the-hill settlement for the Initial Seven I have already formed in my oft-used previous-version pattern of corridors and rooms, and may well be the initial reception area for any future dwarf migrants, albeit via a different entrance from the current one (which I shall block up).

When the next migration wave turns up, I shall by then have made significant progress towards moving my Initial Seven into a new area (sealed off by underground bridges) to be designed around a variant of my current OCD-pandering layout style but also with a Panopticon feel to it.  With any luck, by the time the next migration wave arrives, I shall have sent my Initial Seven deeper still, beyond a further separating gap, and moved my elder Incomers into the Panopticon area, leaving the fresh-faced upstarts to occupy the First Struck living area.  And so I plan to stay true to my layout plans (which I have described in far more detail than is worthy of them), albeit with the airlock system.  I plan for each bubble in the system to be totally self-sufficient (for the necessities of life, at least) and I shall see (crashes and bugs allowing) how long I can keep this up until I am forced to move the senior Incomers into the Original Seven's latest quarters in order to shuffle their immediate successors into their area, the ones arriving after them now allowed into this more recently freed-up area, and so on until the most recent wave can be let in to occupied the penultimate wave's quarters in that oldest area of the fort, the "mere scratch in the ground" that I'm still developing.

This is not to say that only the Initial Seven shall have the chance for ‼FUN‼, as each community shall have access (at least in-potentia, although it depends upon pick-qualified and -equipped occupants at that time) to the whole vertical column, even while I send the core of the successive expeditionary quarters that the Initial Seven pioneer deeper (and off to one side).

But all that needs some time, and not a little micromanagement, naturally...  We shall see if it happens that way, or whether it ends up overtaken by events, or irresistible/necessary updates...


[1] Although I have somehow revealed[2] "Glowing pit" when I vertically-designated the first of the massive stairwells, which I fully expected[3] would have to be re-routed around the caverns that only actually revealed themselves by my punching into their ceilings.

[2] Without any alert message...

[3] And was not disappointed
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Talvieno

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 12:59:16 am »

Hey, Tilly, welcome to the DF forums! I'm your host... yeah, no I'm not, but welcome all the same.  :)

My two favorites (defense only... the interiors of my fortress are generally uninspired, save for the burial areas.).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Favorite #1: Snaketown
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Favorite #2: (I forgot the name)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 01:04:44 am by Talvieno »
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Urist_McArathos

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 01:42:20 am »

I'm interested in looks to a degree, but I'm still working on getting better at the aesthetics.  I'm definitely a mountain dwarf type player, wanting nice deep mountain halls with elaborate setups and designs.

I have a nice 3-tile wide tunnel going into the mountain, with a ballista battery poised to fire down it when invaders come (a deep pit prevents them from getting close enough to reach the operators.

I have a stairway stack that can be sealed off with a bridge during invasions, forcing invaders down a double-helix ramp to the main fortress.

The uppermost level of my fortress is the military area (high enough that I can punch skylights out for their barracks and sparring rooms so they don't get cave adapted); the double-helix ramps slow incoming enemies enough for the soldiers to rush down the stairs and arrive to fight incoming invaders.

After reaching the industry level, magma or waterfalls greet those who make it down the double helix ramps as they pass onward to the trade depots and workshops.  Deeper down the stairs are residential levels: typically three levels of 40 or 50, then a communal level with a great dining hall, noble quarters and administration offices, hospital, public baths, and so on, then more living levels (three more), then the jails, then the catacombs and tombs.

Below that are additional guardposts, since any deeper are the mines and cavern breachings, and these need to be sealed off from the main fort in a hurry should the worst happen.
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Naraceaus

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 02:14:45 am »

I'm trying this new method out were I divide the work up into sections. Each type of workshop gets its own room, including beds, food, drink and a dining room for the workshop user and some haulers. I'm using burrows to restrict dwarves to their particular section. Except the food haulers can access all of the workshop sections to put food in their for them. I try to put all the relevant areas next to each other: like the wood stockpile near the carpentry and wood furnaces, and the mason workshop and stonecrafters workshop near the stone stockpile. I'm designing and constructing on the fly for the first time though so some things are further away from each other than I would like.
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telamon

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 02:27:18 am »

I personally take pride in planning out the layout of my fortress before I go, so my design methods are never organic in appearance past the soil-based floors of the map - always they look pre-arranged, because they are. When I start a fort, I'll drill out several nice wide rooms on all the soil floors just to get space for farms, workshops and stockpiles, then pause and spend the next few days (of real-life time) arranging my first 4-5 floors of stone development so it's all perfect when I'm ready to proceed. Every hallway worth mentioning in my end design is 3 tiles wide if not more. The design always builds around a massive center stair shaft that passes directly through the dining hall, which is typically a few floors below the first z of stone that I find - I don't like leaving it too close to the surface; gives me no room to work above it for cool landscaping features like waterfalls. At least for the first few floors of stone, it's only one kind of business at a time. The floor with the dining hall will also have stuff like the hospital and other multipurpose rooms/buildings. Floors of workshops are only workshops, with floors of only stockpiles above and/or below. Floors of bedrooms are only bedrooms. I find the idea of putting bedrooms on the same floor as a dining room full of gregarious dwarves rather unappealing for those who are trying to sleep, so the bedrooms are usually fairly low down. Fast transfer between floors is facilitated by loads of staircases, and once I have a lot of them I start placing hatches to avoid falls.

Also, a strange habit of mine from my first few games of DF: I almost always open a fort by placing down staircases on open land, never by digging into the wall of a mountain on ground level. Makes it pretty difficult to get the caravan underground, yeah, so I don't even try. Instead, I usually compensate by staking out a lot of the ground around my entrance zone, on the surface level, and bringing it under direct military control; the enemy is never supposed to even get close to the staircases that I start at and it's in these aboveground regions that I plant my trade depot. Having safe access to the surface has a lot of benefits in terms of space to build and gives piles of room for megaprojects and archery training towers (in my last fort, all my barracks were built in a green glass tower in the sky, rising over the central staircase of the fortress below). I had a megaproject planned where I would build a gigantic gate (inspired by this beauty - i can share the design if anyone's interested =P), composed of eight primary tower chambers rising up to 11z into the air, and connected to a ring of fortified walls all around my fortress. It would be big enough for a wagon to EXPLORE in, never mind walk through. It was glorious and I intend to reproduce it now that we have a new version of DF.

As for interior design, I have only two specific requirements: dense (but not cramped - a fine line), and scalable. I'm very good at getting the first one down but getting the second one has been quite difficult in the past. On my first fort, I had one loooong hallway with a workshop on either side running down a very long distance - not scalable at all, so I resolved to fix that on my next fort. My bedroom layouts are primarily inspired by this design, which I expanded into a larger preplanned complex. The workshops are based on a scalable 16-shop square of my own making (can replace four shops in the center with one large 5x5, siege or kennel ofc). All output stockpiles go on floors above or below the shops - my design patterns are too dense to put them on the same floor. I use quantum stockpiles to position the input goods if they're raw materials like wood or stone; stockpiling those things is frankly not worth the space it consumes. I also plan out the positioning of the shops themselves to make sure I know where the input and output will go - as always, input is more important than output. Every workshop must be sequestered by doors, individually from all other workshops - none of this combining workshops in a single room business for me; the singular separation gives me a satisfying sense of security.

I always embark on maps with a river (sourced water is just too important to me, and fishing is also nice) so I always construct a cistern off the river and pipe water under the sections of my fortress. For the next fort I make, I'm just gonna run the cistern super-deep, and leave one massive hole running all the way up my fortress - on every floor over that hole, I'll build a well. (It's gonna suck for any dwarf that falls into the hole though. too bad for them)

And as for defense, I take inspiration from the work I see on this forum/the wiki, and any cool architecture I find online that I can build a megaproject out of. I'm planning on combining this lava trap by Icebird (the trap basically contains a cistern of magma suspended over the entrance hall by a retracting bridge, and the hall flooring is made up of floor grates into another cistern below, then the two cisterns are connected by pump stacks. at the pull of a lever, the bridge above pulls away, dropping delicious magma onto intruders and through the grates into the tank below, which pumps it back up to the top) with the gigantic gate+wall design I had from before. Whenever I get bored I just go fishing for some cool real-life architecture to model another megaproject on, and if the current one is any indication, ancient history is an awesome place to get ideas.

My military training always takes place above-ground, in buildings that I construct. That also includes training of siege weapons. At the top of my old archery tower were a set of catapults, 7z in the air, where I trained my siege operators, with barracks and archery rooms below. There was the obvious risk of falling down the stairs during wrestling, straight through to the bottom of the fortress, which I disregarded for the purposes of fun. The exception is at the start of the game, when I don't yet have the industry to produce those buildings for another year or so. I leave the barracks on the floor right under the entrance to the fortress, right in the staircase room. Enemies then have to walk through my military before they can reach the stuff below, which is reasonable security for the ambushes of the first few years while I build my towers everywhere. Once I have my setups built, I just surround every entrance to the fort with trap-laden paths (menacing spikes, spiked steel balls and serrated disks are where it's at. spikes are all connected to a water/pressure plate repeater design I found on the wiki) that are 10-15 tiles long. More than enough to solve most of my above ground problems.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 02:29:08 am by telamon »
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