Topic: Weapon Damage? (Read 5047 times)

TDSS02 · « **on:** February 17, 2012, 04:28:11 pm »

What is weapon damage based on? I'm trying to add some new weapons and give them a bit more kick but i really don't have a clue as to what to edit. I know from reading the wiki about contact area, velocity modifiers and penetration but what does it all mean, and how much do i increase it? for instance below is the standard battle axe, i know contact area is 40000 and penetration is 6000 i think the velocity modifier is 1250, but what does that mean? 6000 compared to what? just a little confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[ATTACK:EDGE:40000:6000:hack:hacks:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:40000:6000:slap:slaps:flat:1250]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:1000:strike:strikes:pommel:1000]

Hugo_The_Dwarf · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2012, 04:44:02 pm »

I will help with what little I know, I am by far no expert in this field and would like to know 100% on what they are too.

Contact Area, affects how much contact the attacks does, so 100 is 100% of the weapon hitting, upping this will weaken it? As armor has more of a chance to block it. (50 and lower count as stabbing attacks essentially)

Penetration size, affects how deep the attack will go so having a edge attack with a 1 penetration will be more of a small/light cut not very deep.

Velocity Mod, is like a total combat boost (hits harder?) as I have a golem that if it kicks a smaller foe (kick attack has a velocity mod) it will be sent flying.

Example of my dual weapons

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE_DUAL]
[NAME:dual battle axes:dual battle axes]
[SIZE:1600]
[SKILL:AXE]
[TWO_HANDED:9999999]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:42500]
[CAN_STONE]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]
[ATTACK:EDGE:80000:12000:dual hack:dual hacks:NO_SUB:5000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:40000:6000:hack:hacks:right axe:2500]
[ATTACK:EDGE:35000:7500:cleave:cleaves:right axe:3250]
[ATTACK:EDGE:20000:8000:swing savagely at:swings savagely at:right axe:4500]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:40000:6000:slap:slaps:right axe flat:2500]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:1000:strike:strikes:right axe pommel:2000]
[ATTACK:EDGE:40000:6000:hack:hacks:left axe:2500]
[ATTACK:EDGE:35000:7500:cleave:cleaves:left axe:3250]
[ATTACK:EDGE:20000:8000:swing savagely at:swings savagely at:left axe:4500]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:40000:6000:slap:slaps:left axe flat:2500]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:1000:strike:strikes:left axe pommel:2000]

IT 000 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2012, 04:53:26 pm »

Size is in cubic centimeters. So 40000 cm³ and 6000 cm³ respectively. Keep in mind this is the entire axe head.

Higher Contact area allows the weapon to effect more of an area.
example: Axes have a high contact area, so they can chop off limbs more.

However, low contact area allows the weapon to penetrate easier.
example: Spears have a low contact area, so they can pierce people better.

Penetration, a smaller number means less penetration. Higher means more.

The velocity meter is the last number (1250). 1000 is considered average. Just picture a decimal after the 1, for example 1250 = 1.250 means the weapon is 25% faster. The higher the velocity the better the weapon is overall, also the faster you can attack.

-----

Since you're a beginning modder, I strongly suggest that you copy a weapon that resembles the weapon you want to mod in. Then change the stats for a ballpark estimate. Play with the numbers a bit in the arena until you get an effect you want.

Hugo_The_Dwarf · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:14:00 pm »

Quote from: IT 000 on February 17, 2012, 04:53:26 pm

The velocity meter is the last number (1250). 1000 is considered average. Just picture a decimal after the 1, for example 1250 = 1.250 means the weapon is 25% faster. The higher the velocity the better the weapon is overall, also the faster you can attack.

SO in theory by dual attack
[ATTACK:EDGE:80000:12000:dual hack:dual hacks:NO_SUB:5000]
would allow another attack right after faster then any of the other?

Well dual weapons are surpose to be better all round due to the lack of a shield

Meph · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:19:55 pm »

Hugo: I cant for the life of me find a velocity mod. I searched the forum and DFFD. Do you happen to have a link ?

trees · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:20:17 pm »

Velocity multipliers have nothing to do with movement speed. It's used to simulate how certain weapons can be swung faster than others, mostly.

TDSS02 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:23:50 pm »

Awesome thanks everyone, i get it now, very cool. So if i wanted to mod the vanilla axe to be better just slightly raise the velocity mod and maybe the contact area?

IT 000 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:30:44 pm »

Quote from: trees on February 17, 2012, 05:20:17 pm

Velocity multipliers have nothing to do with movement speed. It's used to simulate how certain weapons can be swung faster than others, mostly.

Correct, but I'm pretty sure that you will be able to get more attacks. A weapon with 2000 will be able to get about 2 attacks in while a weapon with 1000 can only get about one. (assuming the creatures have the same physical stats)

Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 17, 2012, 05:14:00 pm

Quote from: IT 000 on February 17, 2012, 04:53:26 pm
The velocity meter is the last number (1250). 1000 is considered average. Just picture a decimal after the 1, for example 1250 = 1.250 means the weapon is 25% faster. The higher the velocity the better the weapon is overall, also the faster you can attack.
SO in theory by dual attack
[ATTACK:EDGE:80000:12000:dual hack:dual hacks:NO_SUB:5000]
would allow another attack right after faster then any of the other?

Well dual weapons are surpose to be better all round due to the lack of a shield

Agility has a bigger impact, but you should be able to get a couple more attacks in then your enemies. Keep in mind though that this will effect all other stats, whips have 5000 speed, but only 1 contact area and 10 penetration, and they can go through steel armor. Your axes would blender someone if it did so much as wobble slightly.

NecroRebel · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:49:49 pm »

Bear in mind that the actual energy imparted by an attack increases with the square of the attack's speed, so the velocity multiplier can have surprisingly large effects. A value of ~1414 will double the effectiveness of an attack relative to an otherwise-identical one with a value of 1000, for instance, while 2000 is 4x strength, 3000 9x, 4000 16x, and the highest vanilla value of 5000 is 25x.

This is part of why whips are so strong; despite their low size and thus mass of 100, their speed modifier is 5000, so they impart about 1.5x the energy per strike as a warhammer or mace, and that energy is concentrated on 1/10th the area. In real life, you'd expect the vast majority of a whip's energy to be lost deforming the whip itself, but DF doesn't model that (yet?).

Grimlocke · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:55:18 pm »

Heres some things I scienced out:

Smaller contact area is better armor penetration, but lower damage on low armor creatures.

Spoiler: Tested on the following two weapons: (click to show/hide)

First two teams of 80 naked humans, one with bear spears (broad headed spear) one with awl pikes (very thin spearhead). Bear spears won easily.

Next was with armor, easily won by awl pikes.

Love it when this sort of mechanic actualy works.

The second number pretty much seems to upper limit of edged damage done, havnt expirimented with it as much. Blunt damage unaffected, a weapon with 0 penetration damage becomes a blunt weapon (Useful for weapons that have both edged and blunt attacks; edged attacks are highly favoured by the AI). Very low penetration depth adds some bloodyness and stuckin effect but still funtions very much like a blunt weapon.

Spoiler: Examples: (click to show/hide)

Velocity and also size are good for balancing out weapon damage, higher is mostly more damage. Not sure about how attack duration is affected. Size also sets weapon value.

You can force twohanded use by upping the twohanded number above human size (or whatever else you want to use them for). Note this only affect fortress mode dwarves, advanturers and worldgen characters do not care and still keep using shields with two-handed swords (somewhat dated information I will admit). Using to pike skill can prevent this.

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Author Topic: Weapon Damage? (Read 5047 times)

TDSS02

Weapon Damage?

Hugo_The_Dwarf

Re: Weapon Damage?

IT 000

Re: Weapon Damage?

Hugo_The_Dwarf

Re: Weapon Damage?

Meph

Re: Weapon Damage?

trees

Re: Weapon Damage?

TDSS02

Re: Weapon Damage?

IT 000

Re: Weapon Damage?

NecroRebel

Re: Weapon Damage?

Grimlocke

Re: Weapon Damage?