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[dirty foot]

See, I love the game. I think the greatest aspect of it (for me) is the reality of damage in the game. Taking real anatomical damage, or dishing it out, is infinitely fun for me. For me though, the absolute worst part of the game is how inefficient the menu system is. Changing gear and trading in DF Adventure are the two biggest pains in the ass I've ever dealt with in a game ever, well, not considering the DF menu system. It's not only time-consuming, it's inherently confusing (even after over a year of playing the game).

Is if this is a style choice, or the game is just ultimately limited in its menu design by how it's programmed? I'm assuming it's the latter, considering how long the game has been in existence. However, if it's not limited by the code, is it possible to mod in a more digestible system? Knowing what clothing fits where, how much each piece weighs, and having a better understanding of what is in what bag would be worlds better. I'm not even going to assume being able to use the mouse (although that would be nice), I'd just like to be able to remove more than one thing before being punted out of the "remove" screen. A "paper doll" inventory screen would be AMAZING. Even just an inventory/wear screen that showed what all my options were for a specific part of the body. I almost have to take notes every time I find a new piece of gear. I understand that in these kind of games, inventory management is part of the fun and challenge, but that doesn't mean the inventory system has to be cumbersome.

Also, I don't want to sound ungrateful to our developers; this game is amazing. I'm just surprised that the menu system hasn't seen optimization since I started playing over a year ago.

[Loud Whispers]

Update of the game incoming.

As for the menu.

TOLERATE THE CRAP OUT OF IT.

I actually quite like it. Just me..?

[dirty foot]

Update of the game incoming.

As for the menu.

TOLERATE THE CRAP OUT OF IT.

I actually quite like it. Just me..?

It's the adventure mode that I find most inefficient. When you have a game this dependent on raw knowledge (elasticity, densities, anatomical proportion of items, etc.), it would be nice if the menu system didn't put such a burden on the player to remember all the data, or having them page through multiple menus to put it all together.

I manage okay with the menu system, but complacency is a dangerous mindset.

[Loud Whispers]

it would be nice if the menu system didn't put such a burden on the player to remember all the data, or having them page through multiple menus to put it all together.

Which menu is this for adv. mode?

[dirty foot]

it would be nice if the menu system didn't put such a burden on the player to remember all the data, or having them page through multiple menus to put it all together.

Which menu is this for adv. mode?

Dressing your character. A separate menu page each for removing, wearing, and storing items is very inefficient; there should be some kind of way to integrate them all on the same page. On top of that, a game that relies so heavily on understanding impact yield, fracture, density, etc., of items could benefit greatly from having said info displayed somewhere for easy comparison. I realize we have the wiki, but it's much more time consuming to pull up a wiki spreadsheet every time I kill someone wearing a shiny piece of armor.

I mean, maybe I could try to memorize all that information, but it's unlikely. I have a terrible memory, and I've seen some of those numbers get shifted before in patches.

I know it sounds nitpicky, but I think a lot can be gained for many people by taking a closer look at the design in that area. This, of course, is assuming the menu can even be changed. I have no idea if it's even possible.

[Loud Whispers]

I just delve into the raws for any info

Ok, that's hardly an improvement, but it's a start

Plus... Wouldn't displaying the material information make things incredibly tedious as well?

Though the whole wearing/grasping thing... Meh. I'm ok with it, but being able to re-arrange how everything is displayed would be nice...

Good thing adv. mode is getting an overhaul in the update

[dirty foot]

I was looking at the release notes, but didn't see anything that hinted at such changes.

Perhaps I spoke too soon on the issue; I need to reread everything.

[d00nut]

I would have to agree with dirty foot.  I've been an off and on player for at least two years i think a lot more.  The biggest issue for me can be doing a job that i know should be accomplished simply and quickly and having it take a good 5 minutes.  At the same time when you finally do remember the exact key combination to do a specific task it is kind of exhilarating in a weird way that no other game has ever done for me.

With that, i find that i rarely really find myself looking at specific information about a certain item because i can't tend to remember how to.  A slightly condensed menu that took the commands available to be performed in some menus would be nice.

[dirty foot]

I would have to agree with dirty foot.  I've been an off and on player for at least two years i think a lot more.  The biggest issue for me can be doing a job that i know should be accomplished simply and quickly and having it take a good 5 minutes.  At the same time when you finally do remember the exact key combination to do a specific task it is kind of exhilarating in a weird way that no other game has ever done for me.

With that, i find that i rarely really find myself looking at specific information about a certain item because i can't tend to remember how to.  A slightly condensed menu that took the commands available to be performed in some menus would be nice.

I've brought this issue up in the past (when I first started playing), and people weren't really receptive to the perspective. I essentially dropped pushing the discussion, because I was convinced that I needed to get used to the design, and it would be okay. I'm bringing it up again because I simply feel that it's not optimal. I might be used to it, but it feels unnecessarily slow and cumbersome.

I don't have any studies/surveys on hand to prove this, but I have a hypothesis that this is similar to how people got used to the QWERTY keyboard and resist changing it. It's been proven time and time again that the current keyboard setup is inefficient (mostly because it was designed to be inefficient so that typewriters didn't jam up from typing too fast), but people insist it's acceptable because they're used to it, and they know no other way.

[agatharchides]

I don't play Adventure mode so I can't comment on it. But the fortress mode menu hasn't really changed since I started playing it about 4.5 years ago. I would agree that it isn't efficient and I think a lot of people actually agree with you, on the forum and elsewhere. You can master it and when you do it's tolerable, but the QWERTY analogy is pretty good. Even the developer honestly admits the UI is pretty bad. At the same time, the real issue is that Mr. Adams hasn't shown any particular interest in changing it in the near future and until he does 'getting used to it' is about your only choice aside from quitting the game.

[nenjin]

Most people wouldn't disagree that all of DF's menus could be better. However, the equip screen works and that's why people have accepted it. I used to struggle with it too, but when I started examining every bit of information presented...it started making a lot more sense. You can't take anything for granted with DF's interface.

As for DF having a "modern" UI, it's at best a low, low priority, and at worst it'll never happen. Getting DF to the point where it had a functional, mouse-driven GUI like Diablo would demand about a hundred other improvements as well. Which is why Toady will never rush toward that goal and why he has eschewed many graphical improvements. Because it takes him farther and farther away from real feature development, the thing that keeps him motivated to maintain and grow this beast.

playing over a year ago.

FWIW the game has been in development for a decade.