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Author Topic: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?  (Read 4095 times)

WillowLuman

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Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« on: February 10, 2012, 08:06:11 pm »

One thing I've always liked about dwarf fortress is that the dead stay (sort of) dead. Zombies/skeletons are only found in certain places, and ghosts aren't corporeal.
But I wonder. In the next version, will it be like every fantasy universe and have tombs be facilities designed to reanimate the dead on industrial scale? Will they not be a resting place any more. but basically apartments for zombies? Will every single body entombed in worldgen be reanimated? Can this be turned off?
Not that more undead wouldn't be cool, but I like how permanent death usually is in this game, which is unusual in fantasy.
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nenjin

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 08:12:53 pm »

If you're talking raising the dead on an industrial scale.....that's more likely going to be the necromancer towers. I don't really recall if Toady has explicitly said what leads to mummies raising...but I agree I'd prefer if some tombs had mummies and some just had corpses.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 08:17:11 pm by nenjin »
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Name Lips

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 10:23:32 pm »

My main question is whether a zombie, once destroyed in combat, can be re-raised as another zombie.

If a creature only gets one shot at undeath it might not be too bad.
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puppy daub

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 10:46:54 pm »

It would be nice if necromancy had some limit.  For instance, it only worked on corpses whose soul was not at peace in a proper grave.

In fortress mode, that would mean all invader corpses(unless you slabbed them - but who has the time or patience for that) and dwarfs who who weren't entombed yet, which would mainly be just the fallen of that particular battle.
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Yoink

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 11:01:38 pm »

I remember one fort, where we were attacked by an army of trolls and goblins and took refuge in the walled-off farming area as they ransacked the rest of the fort. A group of trolls took up residence in the catacombs, smashing open coffins and pulling out the long-buried dead and scattering their bones across the floor.
I looked at the skeletons and the were all 'XXmangledXX'... The trolls were obviously gnawing on their dried bones, desecrating their honoured corpses. D:
That was what inspired my dwarves to charge out in a desperate effort to drive back the foul beasts, but more on-topic I could imagine a necromancer attacking, sending his hordes to hold your dwarves back whilst making his way to your coffins with a crowbar/similiar, cracking them open and then raising the dead. :) That way, there's actually a point in burying them in the first place. You just have to make sure evil sorcerers/hungry trolls/beserk cannibal dwarves don't take up residence down there...
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Putnam

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2012, 12:00:13 am »

My main question is whether a zombie, once destroyed in combat, can be re-raised as another zombie.

Considering that being raised as a zombie requires that the creature that is raised does not have the [NOT_LIVING] tag and that the zombie raising adds a [NOT_LIVING] tag to the creature, I would say no.

Kilroy the Grand

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2012, 12:07:00 am »

I want to know how quickly a raise mummy can curse you. If you kill it quickly enough after it was raised, can you prevent being cursed? Or does it curse you immediately when you wake it?
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Putnam

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2012, 12:23:13 am »

I want to know how quickly a raise mummy can curse you. If you kill it quickly enough after it was raised, can you prevent being cursed? Or does it curse you immediately when you wake it?

By the looks of it, they'll curse whoever disturbed them as soon as see the disturber.

If you can coax a follower to go in first, they'll be the one getting cursed :P

Aspgren

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 08:38:35 am »

I kind of agree.

I saw a guy play daggerfall and he went to a cemetery. Then he entered a "dungeon" through a mausoleum and it was ... well it was 3 rooms and 1 rat. Pretty much no loot.

I said "I like that. That's realistic." and I think about it sometimes when I play Skyrim. Every single tomb is inhabited by something! The dead are coming back to life all over the place. So much that the tomb-tender in whiterun has a special amulet to counter that shit.
 makes you wonder why they bury the corpses within the walls to begin with.

Anyway OP I am sure that Toady won't make it like that. Necromancer towers and evil regions are fine but not all tombs can be haunted and full of adventure. Every city has historical characters so every city should show up with some tombs right? That includes cities in the fanciful and calm biomes. There'll be absolutely no way you will find unpleasant zombies/skeletons down there. :)

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 11:29:00 am »

One of toadys post mentioned how the denizens of a tomb only came alive after he swiped the main treasure at the heart of the tomb (I believe it was a masterwork bone figurine). It might be that in good areas the dead stay dead while in the evil areas it's more like traditional rpgs.

Also I do remember toady saying that if a zombie was killed it could be raised again, I'm guessing it'd just go back to being a corpse, as zombie corpses would be a bit weird.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 01:36:55 pm »

I think it would be more realistic to have tombs guarded fortress style: corridors upon corridors of traps.

Maybe they should have different tags for civs, like [CORPSES_GUARD_TOMBS:COMMON] or [TOMB_TRAPS:COMMON], or maybe [TOMB_SENTRIES] so that important people's tombs get living guards.
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Re: Tombs in next release: Basically houses? Or not?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2012, 02:03:23 pm »

Where did you get the idea that all tombs have undead now?
I think Toady was very clear that, besides evil regions and necronmancer towers, only certain very important historical figures, like kings or queens, will get the mummy treatment. The vast majority of dead people will stay dead.

And besides, zombies don't contradict permanent death. It's not the dead people themselves that get animated but merely their lifeless, soulless corpse.
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