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[Blade Master Model 42]

NO

Having 10+ wiki pages open for the learning period is a right of passage. It's not really that bad.

This is the kind of elitist attitude that's bad for the game,  just because we had to learn the hard way doesn't mean everyone should have to until the end of time

Most people I know liked the challenge. It's not really that bad even. Most things are fairly self-explanatory. EVE has a much higher learning curve, and there are still idiots in that game.

I'm siding with Valid_Dark on this point. More new players is likely to mean more donations for Toady, and this sort of thing doesn't really strike me as the kind of suggestion that would take an obscene amount of time to code.

[Valid_Dark]

It's not really that bad.

I always thought a game was bad if it didn't play out in a self contained sort of way. 

When WOW got to the point where exploiters were posting details per mob, as to what they dropped and their average worth, in silver/gold, whatever, on a foreign website.  That's when it got bad.  A competitive PvP in WoW had to lookup the loot profiles and drop rates of a bosses, beforehand, long beforehand.   Many players just decided against try instances because of what some exploiters wiki, or cheat site said.  I decided to leave then.  Thats also about when they merged the communities to save cash.  I'd look around in Undercity, and see dudes in full sets of uberness, and no proof that they even earned them. 

That's when the gaming part, became full of failsauce.  Yeah, I coveted nice gear, who doesn't.  But I coveted fairplay more.  And some of those new faces seemed to have pretty shady actions.  I started to believe the rumors about the Blizzard community.  As a bunch of cheaters, at that point.  There is just something exciting and surprising, about looting something new, or doing something that isn't in the mold, or cookie cutter tradition, or something that... that isn't completely described out in black and white on some outside cheat site in full detail. 

When a game comes to that, its not a game, its a course of study.  I like having some background to see, and some strategy on the wiki, but I don't want to find a walkthru, or need a walkthru to begin to understand it.  For me, I learned it watching a YouTube video.  *love* CaptnDuck!  He really lessoned the learning curve for me.  But once ya get the menu options down pat, there isn't much to learn, but to accept the inevitable failure.  Why?  Because failure is the only endgame worthy of mention, otherwise, its just not random enough.

Sincerely,
Knutor

Yes!  I agree to the fullest extent,  a game should be just that, a game and not a course of study,  although I enjoyed the challenge a game should be self contained and not NEED external resources to be playable,  and I think by foreign website he meant a website that wasn't part of the game, in this case you can pretty much consider the wiki a part of the game,  in fact I just had an idea, it wouldn't hurt to include a link to the wiki ingame, what are your thoughts on this?

[Blade Master Model 42]

in fact I just had an idea, it wouldn't hurt to include a link to the wiki ingame, what are your thoughts on this?

Hitting '?' in the game actually brings up the help screen which does mention the wiki, and the url for it. Not a link, but there you go.

[knutor]

Yup, I know an exploiter when I see one.  Takes one to know one, and I am one.  Old grey haired one.  Am I happy when I see one?  Nope.  Am I happy looking in the mirror?  Don't answer that. 

If it isn't in the game, its foreign to it.  *shrug*  Foreigners don't hold an exclusive contract with the word, foreign.  Gosh!  If they did, they'd all speak English, and visiting Walmart wouldn't be very fun.

I'm against links in the game.  So much so, I'd throw a tantrum if direct hyperlinking was included in DF.  The game allows for multitasking, aswell, when executed, and there already are many nice browsers out there, prolly one on your PC right now.  *thumbs WAY WAY down* on browsing from within DF.  Browsing should be done in a foreign app, possibly that foreigner, named, Internet Explorer.  Who let that buggy fella into the country.  HA!

What browsing from within does, and let me explain, because I have experience in this.  It opens the doorway to microtransactions and DLC.  I don't wish for bay12 to nickle and dime me while I'm starting up or leaving a fantasy world.  And force me indirectly, via peer pressures, to buy Bay12 points, yuck, to compete or obtain patches.  That's what browsing from within games does, it introduces a cash shop to the game.

Ya know, how SOE did it?  Right.  Do ya?  Don't.  Well let me explain.  They put in browsing from within Star Wars Galaxies as a way to 'help the handicapped'.  We got a command line /browse one week, same in EQ as in SWG and I believe Vanguard, well the active ones got it, EQ and SWG for certain.  Not Planetside.  That horse don't buck.  And what was their reason for putting it in? Guess?  To help the handicapped.  Bleh!  Believe that and I have a lot of swamp land, priced to sell.

Did the handicap benefit from it?  Like there is an illness preventing a gamer from clicking ALT TAB.  A gamer who is a twitch freak, able to click PLAY, or execute, can bloody well click ALT TAB.  To begin with, a MMOer, if he can MMO, with WSAD keys to navigate, he can click ALT TAB.  What illness is there that stops someone from clicking ALT TAB, but allows for WSAD?  Well ol'Knutor wasn't falling for that dog show.  I've seen many bad intentions labeled 'for the handicapped.'  Because I am handicapped.

One week later, what did SOE do?  They used that /browse command(the one for handicapped) to put in their link to their cash shop or as they like to call it, the virtual collectible card game.  Where we as subbies, bought random cards to play a dead web based game in order to randomly get a chance, a very slim chance, at some rare MMO item.  Well it was a scam artists dream, come true.  Say your helping handicapped, dummies, fools, whatever, and then slip in game points!  Amazing.  Those SOE devs are evil people to scam tired MMO players.

Once they slipped in the command line /browse to help the handicap, they just added a button to execute /browse www.cashshop.net or whatever their URL was, and the little kiddies who must have everything, spent Daddy and Mommy money to ruin the playability and quests for us all.  SWG was already a gimpy product at that time however, but this really was astonishing behavior on their part.  Its one of those immoral acts class action lawsuits are best fit for.  But who is gonna start one of those and put there name, next to a GAME, when people are dying in a war and a typhoon?

What fun in questing is there when the next person is buying his gear with his line of credit and your spending hours in a dungeon?  None, it loses the competitive edge.  Its like gamers on steroids vs real gamers.

Sincerely,
Knutor

[katana]

Money could've been charged for this, and it wasn't. So this game will suddenly become a cash grab?