Topic: Does this tower-compound work ballistically? (Read 1676 times)

ThirdSpartacus · « **on:** December 24, 2011, 01:20:19 am »

Alright sooooo, here's where my excess stone has gone into: an above-ground, indoor all-in-one barracks, farm, and animal pasture compound - complete with a 5-story guard tower extending from the center of the otherwise 1-story compound.

What it looks like:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Will the crossbow dwarf be able to shoot the goblin or will the goblin be shielded by the walls/roof of the 1st story compound since it is adjacent to it?
Are there blindspots for my archers in this tower-compound, compared to a lone constant-dimension tower?

BigFatStupidHead · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2011, 01:26:52 am »

I think your Little goblin buddy will be shielded, but the picture is a little hard to make out. Try putting it into code blocks (the asterix button up there) as well, as that maintains text spacing.

EDIT:Oops. Yes, the hash mark, not asterisk.

Loud Whispers · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2011, 01:29:39 am »

Code: [Select]

Use the hash tag icon (insert code) to have all of your characters
evenly
vv
e e
n  n
l   l
y    y

spaced out. Pretty neat huh?

rhesusmacabre · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2011, 04:25:52 am »

Alternatively, use [tt]text diagram[/tt] for no box:
nn e e a a t t l l y y
or, if that's too large, use [tt][size=8pt]text diagram[size][/tt] (or other):
nn i i c c e e & & t t i i d d y y
bbcodes.

To answer your question, I think in this case the goblin would be a viable target. Blind spots are a factor when shooting over z-levels, but the distance here nullifies that. I'm not certain how it works, but it's something like:

(side view)
xxxxx ______ xxxxxx ╬_>_☺╬xxxxxxx O X O xxxxxx O X O xxxxx ___O X O_______
where x is visible.

NonconsensualSurgery · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2011, 04:54:21 pm »

The optimal archer tower is only 3x3 inside (5x5 outside) with a cabinet in the center of the square. Set this as a barracks.

This will ensure that marksdwarves always stand right up against the fortification and are always ready.

A suboptimal but still effective (and easily adapted to your plans) method is to create a ring of fortifications all the way around the outpost on the second or third floor and have a walkway that they patrol. This will allow for 360 degrees of pain. A trench can keep goblins from getting too close.

Loud Whispers · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2011, 04:56:04 pm »

The more ridiculous amongst us would create an alt save, and test out the LOS and FOF in adventure mode

ThirdSpartacus · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2011, 05:06:03 pm »

Neh, the compound blocks range.

It seems that bolts can only fly in a straight line instead of a parabola downwards so when the goblin invasion hit the bolts would hit 3 tiles away from the walls on the surface level, while the goblins would stand adjacent to the wall and be shielded from the bolts.

But that's k cause I have plenty more stone to built another tower.

Also thanks for the tips on the code stuff.

Triaxx2 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2011, 06:20:14 pm »

If you want to defend that, build dwarf-boxes. 3x3 with a stair and bolt stockpile in the middle, and a guard point for an archer.

Alternate option, is to build on the second floor a covered walkway over the wall, with a two tile wide moat to keep the gobbos from getting cozy with the wall.

Mechanoid · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2011, 07:14:46 pm »

Go into adventure mode in another save file, and look at how your LOS behaves. DF mode uses the same method. If you stand directly next to the corner, you could see (i can't remember exactly, just play along) something like this:
. is visible, X is not visible
@ ###. ###X. ###XX. ###XXX.

Meanwhile if you take one step back from that edge, the line of sight could change to look like:
@. ###.. ###XX.. ###XXXX.. ###XXXXXX..

What this means is higher towers and moving the archer's walkable (and this visual) area away from the edge of said tower is not always better. So you might think "So i should just use 1-high walls as defenses" but no, because units can attack what is directly adjacent to them; even what is above them on another Zlevel. Therefore, the best defensive tower is actually to not use a defensive tower at all, but instead a moat. Joking. If you reall have to use a tower, use this form as a guide:
..@ ###. ... > OUTSIDE ####.^### #########

What that means is, you must take into consideration the LOS of the sentry where he SHOULD be standing in order to see the entire area he's supposed to be observing /protecting, and that the enemies he's shooting at should always be forced to stay inside of that area and never leave it until they either die, or retreat. So if you want a 4z high tower with a fortification edge, you should make the side view look something exactly like:
1 ###### 2 D>..@# 3 #X#### 4 #X#### . ..... 5 #<...#..^#.^##### 6 ################# ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ

Why is there a wall on 5J? Because that wall prevents the enemy from walking directly up to the base of the tower and using it as cover. Every single spot on this example except for the inside 3-wide moat can be seen from the sentry in the tower top. Even if the enemy sat inside the 2-wide moat (5K, 5L) they could still be shot at from the position @ (2E) When the above is reduced to a basic LOS model, it looks like:

1 ###### 2 D>..@. 3 ######.. 4 ########.. ..... 5 ##########.^##### 6 ################# ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQ

Build a test fortification in a small pocket world fortress, go there as an adventurer, and TEST THE LINE OF SIGHT OUT to make sure your defenses work the way you want them to!

Monkeyfacedprickleback · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2011, 07:42:13 pm »

What I always do is buil my fortifications to have bastions.

................... ............FFFF... ............F..F... FFFFFFFFFFFFF..F... .............FFF... .............F..... .............F.....

This give my Marks dwarves the abilitly to shoot down the wall huggers from a relatively safe distance of 2-3 squares. The Bastions cover the wall while the wall covers the bastions. It may require patrol routes and stationing orders, but it works against every thing but elite Archer goblins.

Cellmonk · « **Reply #10 on:** December 25, 2011, 10:53:35 pm »

Quote from: Monkeyfacedprickleback on December 24, 2011, 07:42:13 pm

What I always do is buil my fortifications to have bastions.

................... ............FFFF... ............F..F... FFFFFFFFFFFFF..F... .............FFF... .............F..... .............F.....

This give my Marks dwarves the abilitly to shoot down the wall huggers from a relatively safe distance of 2-3 squares. The Bastions cover the wall while the wall covers the bastions. It may require patrol routes and stationing orders, but it works against every thing but elite Archer goblins.

I wonder if anyone has made a star citadel? that would be one cool fort! too bad catapults can only shoot NS or EW.

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Author Topic: Does this tower-compound work ballistically? (Read 1676 times)

ThirdSpartacus

Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

BigFatStupidHead

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

Loud Whispers

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

rhesusmacabre

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

NonconsensualSurgery

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Loud Whispers

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

ThirdSpartacus

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

Triaxx2

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

Mechanoid

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

Monkeyfacedprickleback

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?

Cellmonk

Re: Does this tower-compound work ballistically?