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[LordBucket]

Depends on what you call emotions. They're a name we give the appearance
of specific phenomena, the underlying cause of which I regard in humans
to be processes located in the body. In short, I don't have any belief
in the supernatural or spiritual

Well, this is your world that we're describing. You appear to be planning on populating it with vampires and magic, so considering the implications of what we're discussing on "supernatural and spiritual" creatures seems worthwhile.

As for the fear thing, to quote Polaschek: "But there probably isn't such a thing as a harmless psychopath. People who live for themselves and for the day will tend to blunder around, causing harm to people - because that's not how society works."

It's possible for an immortal to be a sociopath rather than psycopath.

No fear of reprisal probably means doing what you want. Not everybody enjoys hurting others. From the perspective of a society contending with sociopaths it makes sense to perceive them as harmful monsters. But the perspective of a sociopath is probably not "Growrr! Imma kill and destroy!" And presenting them as such seems a gross simplification.

My idea is with the eventual boredom of experiencing the same basic
sensations for centuries, and seeing everybody else die with no escape
for yourself, would promote such a "live for yourself and the day"

That's fine if that's what you want to do. But it's been done.

[LordBucket]

I don't believe in ghosts or souls, it's kinda a moot point as far as I'm concerned.

But...in the previous post you said you were planning on having ghosts in this world you're making. I think that makes it relevant.

[Willfor]

You're either an idiot or a troll. This will be my last response to you.

1) How is he denying that by asserting the scientific
explanation for emotions in physical creatures?

He suggested that emotions are chemicals in the bloodstream or brain. If so, then it follows that a creature without blood or a brain would not be able to experience emotion.

2) How are you making assertions that modern fantasy
writers are nonsensical when you are rejecting actual science?

Non-sequitor.

1) You are mischaracterizing what I said into an assertion I did not make
2) I have not "rejected science."

My response to you is thus:

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

Since this will be my last reply to you, I suggest you reply to this post with some sort of similarly stupid response that will allow you to feel really good about yourself. I won't reply to it, you'll feel like you "won" and I won't have to put up with you anymore.

Everyone wins.

For the record, I honestly thought that was what you were trying to say, and the assertion that you were trying to make. That doesn't make me an idiot, that makes me uninformed to the intent of your argument.

From what you said, it sounded like you yourself were rejecting chemical reactions as a cause of emotion, and that seemed entirely different from your previous logical track. It made me think you were being a little insane, honestly.

[MorleyDev]

I'm aware of that, Tropes Are Tools after all I'm not claiming to be unique in a lot of respects. Likewise, I was giving some extreme examples, but in terms of writing I'm thinking some more subtle neurosis and a tendency towards egotism or indirectly suicidal tendencies, or tending to forgot (and as they get older, having trouble or being incapable of caring) that people are, you know, people and not just tools to be used and manipulated. The idea that eventually they won't even notice the line in the sand as they crossed it and won't be about to turn back or apologise, at least not with any sincerity.

My idea of Ghosts is effectively, well sure I'll explain ghosts here although they are an idea I am somewhat fighting with since I'm straying into Energy Can Do Anything! I'll probably leave this explanation as the "rough theory" being dolled out by someone only somewhat educated on the topic:

Ghosts) A person can either with knowledge or dumb luck, often when dying or being killed, create a kind of "construct" which is essentially an energy copy of themselves, their personality and traits. A ghost isn't the original person who died, they're simply gone, but a kind of 'imprint' of them left in the world. This imprint can have varying levels of sentience, being anything from creatures of anger and hate to effectively that person but in a less material form. They would essentially exist as a series of interactions between energies created in a specific way so as to manifest as if they were the original person.

However, as time goes on that energy slowly disperses into the surrounding world, causing the ghost to decay. Actually influencing the surrounding world requires them to expend some energy too, hastening the decay. Their powers and ability to influence the world weakens, and even the sanity of the ghost deteriorates into a much more base, primal personality. Eventually, they'll fade into nothingness.

Ghosts, especially the ghosts of wizards or warlocks created with preparation, can learn to take energy from the world and maintain themselves (Ghosts who can do this are what causes the "sensation of cold" reported on all those TV shows ^^).

Like I said, so far it's a topic I'm a bit vague on how I'll make it fit, it being a copy of the person in the "magical energies" mage-users work with seems the best I can come up with...

[LordBucket]

Ghosts)
a kind of "construct" which is essentially an energy copy of themselves, their personality and traits. A ghost isn't the original person who died, they're simply gone, but a kind of 'imprint' of them left in the world. This imprint can have varying levels of sentience,

I'm not sure how to reconcile the idea that they're constructs with the idea that they can be sentient. If you want to say that consciousness can reside in physical forms, that matter and energy are the same thing, and therefore consciousness can reside in energy forms...that seems reasonable to me.

But if there are no "souls" then what is it that's residing in the energy form? If it's simply a construct, a pattern of energy that tends to interact with the rest of the world in certain ways...that's fine, but how is it sentient?

A ghost isn't the original person who died, they're simply gone

What's gone? If there is no soul, then what left when the person died?

[MorleyDev]

If it's simply a construct, a pattern of energy that tends to interact with the rest of the world in certain ways...that's fine, but how is it sentient?

If we're just meat, bones and blood that tend to interact with the rest of the world, how are we sentient? Sentience is a concept, not a quantified trait. I call them sentient, as it seems an appropriate term ^^

What's gone? If there is no soul, then what left when the person died?

They're gone. Maybe it's, as I suspect it is in real life, a Cessation of Existence. Maybe they go to heaven, maybe hell, maybe they get reincarnated, maybe they go to Valhalla, maybe...you get the idea ^^ The real world doesn't have one so in my universe I don't actually want to give a clear answer in this. Personally I think "not knowing" raising the stakes considerably, and makes life all the more valuable ^^ I may be an atheist, but I don't have any problem with writing religious characters either so it's not like there'll be "one world, one religion".

[LordBucket]

If we're just meat, bones and blood that tend to interact with the rest of the world, how are we
sentient? Sentience is a concept, not a quantified trait. I call them sentient, as it seems an appropriate term

What do you mean by it then? Because:

Sentience:
"Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences."

Or as google defines it:

"awareness: state of elementary or undifferentiated consciousness"


If you perceive us as simply "meat, bones and blood that tend to interact with the rest of the world" then by the above definitions, to your perception we're not sentient.

So when you say that ghost/imprints in your world "can have varying levels of sentience" what exactly do you mean by that?

[MorleyDev]

Are dogs sentient? Are ants sentient?

I was using the idea that to be sentient you have to be able to reason, whilst dogs and ants can't. As the ghost decays, it loses it's ability to reason, that's what I mean by "varying levels of sentience". As sentience is an ill-defined phrase in philosophy, it's probably not the most descriptive word I could have chosen.

The way I'd envisage it working in this verse is a ghost that is an imprint of someone brutally murdered during a fit of intense rage and cursing the world may only have that aspect of them inside it, so goes around killing in a blind rage it can't recover from. Whilst a carefully prepared ghost created by a wizard, or one of an old man who died in peace may retain a lot or all of that person's personality and reasoning powers. The former I wouldn't consider any more sentient than a rabid dog, the latter I'd consider on par with a living human in terms of sentience.