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[IronyOwl]

To your first, NOT. I tought you were going for toasty since he had a kill, but also since you tried to protect Simple.

That's still wrong reasoning, though. I was ready to bus or distance myself from Simple at first, then pointed out the implausibility of Toaster's claim.

Second. Agreed, again, i said that 9f the game did not end, he was a SK, and was 40% for that. Shoulda shuffled the % around, but whatever.

Again, that would make your reasoning on who was scum even worse, since even you thought Toaster might well be an SK. And once again, it's still wrong reasoning, since we (or I, at least) didn't care about defending Simple, we cared about killing Toaster.

Third, Good joke. No, the clincher is not that max was killed, but that simple flipped scum. What are the chance that scum decide to bus their teammate, and that all the simple voters where misguided town ? Answer is not many, unless scum like to shoot themselves in the foot. Max flip sure helped, since now the team was completely defined instead of 2 on 3, but still.

No, I mean that your reasoning only worked at all because Max was dead. If Max had been alive, there would have been three people who went for Toaster, so your claim would have had to be that two of the three MUST be scum. That's even more obviously shoddy logic.

You should really read up on the concept of WIFOM, because you clearly don't understand how it works. Scum "shoot themselves in the foot" pretty much continuously, because otherwise it's obvious that they're scum. If your train of thought contains "but scum wouldn't do that," you've just explained exactly why scum would do that. If it contains "but scum would want to do that," you've just explained why they wouldn't.

And to conclude, no, i was right because i looked who voted for who, and the flips. I used basic logic to guess who was mafia and got it perfectly. U Jelly ?

Given that you were wrong about everything else in the game, and "right" only for completely different reasons than you thought you were, no, not very jelly. This sort of reasoning will fail miserably the vast majority of the time, as it basically relies on scum not trying to hide themselves.

I hope my PMs to you made things interesting from a modding perspective.  (I had been detailing my thought process out in my night PMs to Meph, partially for record keeping purposes.  Example:

Heh, neat. It's always nice to have a record of a lone murderer's ravings, hence the last portions of scumchat. You should post the rest, even though it seems fairly obvious what you were thinking most of the time.

[Jim Groovester]

Personally, Toaster, I would have gone after Dariush instead of Jim on that last day. A War Vet claim is the perfect defensive claim if no one has targeted you, since it pretty much keeps everyone from targeting you after that. And Dariush probably would have been an easier lynch target.

If he had done that he would've had to face questions about why he didn't just shoot Dariush during the night, since the votes were there for Jack A T to deal with me if it turned out Dariush was telling the truth. The lynch might've been easier to pull off but his actions would be less credible.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

But but, irony, why wont you look at what you are saying ? There is a difference between Wifom and stupidity.  I tought you were not stupid enough to try and lynch simple. Maybe if you were extremely vocal about it, or claimed an inspect on him or somesuch you could have said Wifom, but nay. None of that. You vote on someone who was vig or sk, both able to disrupt you alot. Frankly, i don't know if you are trolling me or are really so unable to grasp basics. I don't care what you toguht back, then, and that you 'almost' bussed Simple, the facts remain that there was almost a nolynch. If max did not die, my reasoning would still have been the same. Simple Scum, lynched, people against his lynch, no lynch due to them : quite possible scum. 2 / 3 is still very favorable to town. It's not hard to understand, really.

[Toaster]

Jim:  True- Town Toaster would have just shot Dariush to end it, since (obv) Town Jack could have lynched Scum Jim if it still didn't end.


Irony:  Gladly.  SK is one of my favorite roles to play.  (And Meph loves making me non-town, so it all works out.)

This is the third game I've had a self-protect power.  Both times before, I didn't use it on N1, figuring I wouldn't catch a nightkill that early.  Both times, I was wrong.


I'm thinking of playing vig instead of SK this time around.  Doing so, my only logical target would be Powder Miner.  Killing anyone else (except maybe MBP) would be seen as anti-town and bad for rep come claim time.  I could, of course, play bulletproof townie and just hold back on my kills and hope to make it to LYLO, but that would backfire if it didn't become a low amount early.

Hurg.  Too bad there's no SK chat.


Well, let's take the direct route.  Attack Powder Miner.

This turned out well for me.

Well, that was unexpected.  Extremely rash, but he's probably town, since I doubt you would give scum a LYLO breaker.  (Mod WIFOM ahoy!)  Killing him would be silly.

My paranoia is screaming at me, so I think I'll defend tonight.

Not sure on any other targets.  MBP did the scum team a favor, what with offing a townie, blowing his power, keeping them from having to do anything D2, making for some noisy useless arguing D3, and giving them a free night.  The only counterbalance was me killing off Powder.

Yeah, I'll hang back.  I can't justifiably "vig" anyone right now.  It may be the wrong choice, but I want that claim later.  Plus, I want to keep scum and town balanced, with me being alive at a 3-man LYLO.

Or a 4-man "MYLO."  That'd be even better.

Irrelevant, since I was blocked.  I was telling the truth about not knowing I was blocked- I even asked Meph what the message meant and he said I didn't know the nature of the power.

Well, town needs me to shoot a scum for them, but damned if I'm sure if I know who one is.  The catch is I'll put it at MYLO if I misfire.

I better sit back and defend tonight.  For the record, Simple's my top suspect now.

Lifesaving choice.  Interesting in that my defending was apparently unblockable (and that my scumdar is 2/2 so far.)

Figured, but needed to be sure.  Scum doesn't know that I can self-protect, but they clearly want me to get lynched.  That's pointing the finger of blame at people who voted me with poor cases- Nuke and Max- possibly Irony.

Native and MBP are almost certainly town at this point- they easily could have gotten me lynched.  Dariush is probably town.  Jack's town... I guess.  Could be wrong.

Jim's always a wild card- I wouldn't put it past him to bus Simple just for being incomprehensible, but he probably would have gone after me harder if he were scum- he's good enough to come up with a case, especially since my play wasn't stellar.

Yeah, I don't think holding back tonight is the right choice.  I just hope scum drink the wine and off someone else.


Attack Max White.  There's actually a decent chance he's town due to his block claim, but they easily could have blocked Vector or Leafsnail N1, and no one would be the wiser.  I don't mind a town hit at this point, though- it'd almost be better for me.

(The "Figured" is in regard to me clarifying that I was indeed attacked the night previous.)

Wasn't sure on this one, but I had it way narrowed down by now.  I had no cop read on this one.  My targeting was irrelevant because I was redirected, but it was nice to have offed the cop that just inspected me.

Well, that's interesting.  Also, unfortunate.


Assuming the scum kills a townie that I don't, with 6p going into night, if I shoot and miss, it'll be 4p with 2 scum and one townie.  If I shoot and hit, 1 scum 2 town and me. 

I have this nagging suspicion that it's Jim playing an excellent job of cover, but there's no freaking way I can shoot him and justify it.  I haven't said anything about Jack and Dariush (and I suspect they're town) so they're out.  That leaves Irony and MBP.  Irony, since I haven't actually suspected him, would be seen as a massive OMGUS kill and good evidence of SK-hood.


That leaves MBP.


Sigh... it's a really tough call on him.   I better sit back and defend, one, because I'm not sure he's scum, two, because 2 scum 2 town would be scum win (and I'd be obvSK if that happened with me alive), and three, because I rather think I'll get targeted.


Also, I'm sure I'll catch hell tomorrow for leaving that vote on Native.

At this point, I had somehow missed that Nuke flipped scum.  Meph was kind enough to point out that he had done so.

Oh wow- that changes things big time.  Thanks, modbuddy!  Hurray for typing out the thought process!

Hmm.... I'd say it's Irony with 80% certainty, 15% Jim, and about 5% split between the other three.

That makes the million dollar question this- is Irony planning on shooting me tonight?  If so, I need to stay defending. (duh)  Otherwise, I do need to go shoot MBP.  If I shoot MBP and scum shoots another townie, that makes 1 scum, 2 townies, and me- an EXTREMELY favorable situation for me.

Well, fortune favors the bold!  Attack MBP!  Let's hope he chugs that wine hard and thinks I'm bulletproof.


For the record, I absolutely cannot wait to see scumchat.  I know I'm giving them a fit, and I hope Irony is waffling over shooting me as much as I am waffling over defending.

Pretty much self-evident.  I was assuming Irony would off someone that wasn't me or MBP.  A no-kill hadn't crossed my mind.

Well, crap.  I don't think it'll be any shock as to what will happen D7.  I was pretty damn sure it was him, but there was no way around lynching him (exactly what I didn't want to happen!)

But you know what?  I'll at least try, and do so by Defending tonight.  Killing Jack is the obvious move, so I'll do exactly not that.  I need Dariush or Jim to hang tomorrow, and to do so I only need to convince Jack.  I doubt it'll happen, but it's worth a shot.

Self evident, again.  I was hosed at this point.

[Powder Miner]

Q.Q You meanie! My gut worms are now invading your stomach as vengeance!

[Dariush]

Fuck you all, guys. Not only have I got NOT A SINGLE PIECE OF NIGHT FLAVOR in the whole game, but also I correctly told you that Toaster and Irony must be anti-town and NOBODY LISTENED TO ME!

And to top it off, I didn't get the chief position at the end.

...

Argh, how could ANYONE believe Toaster's vigclaim?! This is the third game in a row (though I'm pretty sure I have forgotten one along the way) where I got the final anti-town perfectly - WC's Think claim, CM Urist from D1 and here double-combo. And not one soul ever listens to me. Seriously, why doesn't anyone listen to me. It's so unfair. *sniff*

Meph, when is the next game coming up?

[Toaster]

If it makes you feel better, I believed you about Think in WC.  (I just saw him as less of a threat than Team Golem.)

[NUKE9.13]

Important lesson learnt:

You are all morons who won't lynch an obvSK until he is the only one left.

[/notbitteratall,seriously]

Good game, good game. Meph quality.

[Leafsnail]

Well, an outed SK who acknowledges he has a kill is a positive force for the town until all the mafia are dead, basically.  So the best way to handle it if you can find mafia members is to lynch all them then the SK/vig when they're gone.

[IronyOwl]

But but, irony, why wont you look at what you are saying ? There is a difference between Wifom and stupidity.  I tought you were not stupid enough to try and lynch simple. Maybe if you were extremely vocal about it, or claimed an inspect on him or somesuch you could have said Wifom, but nay. None of that. You vote on someone who was vig or sk, both able to disrupt you alot. Frankly, i don't know if you are trolling me or are really so unable to grasp basics. I don't care what you toguht back, then, and that you 'almost' bussed Simple, the facts remain that there was almost a nolynch. If max did not die, my reasoning would still have been the same. Simple Scum, lynched, people against his lynch, no lynch due to them : quite possible scum. 2 / 3 is still very favorable to town. It's not hard to understand, really.

The fact that it was neck-and-neck does seem to point that way, but you're trying to simplify matters too much. If you'd had something else to support it, it wouldn't have been a bad suspicion. Trying to claim it as obvious fact on that alone isn't going to cut it most of the time.

I mean, again, look at it this way: If voting against Simple's lynch and failing was pretty much a guarantee of being outed, wouldn't we have been a lot more cautious about it? Not that we were especially subtle as was, but we still probably wouldn't have wagered the whole game on that pass. The fact that I let Simple's lynch go through when I could have stopped it should be evidence enough of that.

Argh, how could ANYONE believe Toaster's vigclaim?! This is the third game in a row (though I'm pretty sure I have forgotten one along the way) where I got the final anti-town perfectly - WC's Think claim, CM Urist from D1 and here double-combo. And not one soul ever listens to me. Seriously, why doesn't anyone listen to me. It's so unfair. *sniff*

You're not very eloquent about it. People need reasons and credibility to be convinced of something, and you tend to be pretty bad at both.

Irrelevant, since I was blocked.  I was telling the truth about not knowing I was blocked- I even asked Meph what the message meant and he said I didn't know the nature of the power.

Yeah, that I didn't see coming at all. Granted, I had a skewed view on the subject, but I still figured you were 100% full of crap for this.

Yeah, I don't think holding back tonight is the right choice.  I just hope scum drink the wine and off someone else.

Well, fortune favors the bold!  Attack MBP!  Let's hope he chugs that wine hard and thinks I'm bulletproof.


For the record, I absolutely cannot wait to see scumchat.  I know I'm giving them a fit, and I hope Irony is waffling over shooting me as much as I am waffling over defending.

Damn you. Those parts of scumchat must have been delicious to read.


Also, I have to ask: What kept you claiming your actual kills, rather than stealing scum's claim or feigning ignorance? It seems like you went awfully far out of your way just to keep your stories straight or avoid being followed.

[Toaster]

Extremely delicious.  I almost didn't try D7 just to get to read them sooner.

That idea didn't really cross my mind- once I went with the vig claim, I wanted to be as honest and forthright as possible.  I am pretty paranoid of trackers, though.