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Author Topic: Aquifer problems.  (Read 1389 times)

Conan

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Aquifer problems.
« on: June 20, 2011, 11:04:01 pm »

Okay, two questions.

1) If you're in a freezing environment, is there any effectual way to make an ice pit? As in, a way that won't get your miners encased in ice?

2) If you're doing it underground, any effective and simple method to get through?


Also, as a side note, does smoothing walls remove damp status?

MystRunner

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 11:08:31 pm »

2) If you're doing it underground, any effective and simple method to get through?

From what I understand a modified magma piston does the job at allowing you to dig through the aquifer.
Basically drop a pillar of stone through the aquifer and it would allow you to dig through it safely without dealing with pumps.
The method i described is called the Cave-In Method. There are plenty of other methods mentioned on the Aquifer wiki article here.

Always remember DFWiki is your friend
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Conan

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 11:14:20 pm »

Oh yeah, that!

But I was thinking about more "honest" dorfy ways without using glitches. Any reliable method using dwarf-powered pumps?

MystRunner

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 11:24:20 pm »

Oh yeah, that!

But I was thinking about more "honest" dorfy ways without using glitches. Any reliable method using dwarf-powered pumps?

Yeah there's other methods using pumps and the like. When you smooth the stone it stops producing water. Just go onto the wiki and it explains a method using pumps if you want something more Dwarfy
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Conan

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 11:30:46 pm »

Thanks. Anyone else visiting this topic post your own/other people's methods that you know of.

Also, nobody answered 1) yet, and I'm interested in that one.

MystRunner

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 11:49:39 pm »

Thanks. Anyone else visiting this topic post your own/other people's methods that you know of.

Also, nobody answered 1) yet, and I'm interested in that one.

You just have to be careful....on the wiki it pretty much says the dorfs will become encased in ice when channeling. The best i can recommend is doing a small ice pit and have ctrl-alt-del ready in case that fails.
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Urist_McArathos

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 11:50:38 pm »

If you're doing it in an environment where water freezes, just dig out a pit 2 squares longer on each side than your intended passage through the aquifer.  Do this by channeling one row at a time, from one direction to the other (i.e., left to right, top to bottom, etc) until you are one z-level above the water.  Then, wait until the winter freeze before digging further.  To avoid someone freezing themselves in the water as it freezes, channel out the floor one square at a time, that way the water can freeze before your dwarves step on it.  As before, go one row at a time.  If you have an open space instead of an ice floor, that's a glitch.  Build a floor over the open space, then remove it, and the ice floor will be there like it's supposed to be.

To get through it, dig into your ice floor.  Clear out everything except the outermost ring of ice (if you dig into it, water will flow into the square and refreeze; best case scenario you waste your time, worst case the poor miner is trapped in ice as he moves), then build walls adjacent to it (to prevent a thaw from melting this ice and the aquifer flooding your fort).

Diagram:

X is ice
= is the undug area around your passage
U is walls you built
- is the cleared passage for your staircase through the aquifer.

For example, a 5x5 pit would yield the following:

=======
=XXXXX=
=XUUUX=
=XU-UX=
=XUUUX=
=XXXXX=
=======

As you can see, to even get a 3x3 stairway, you'll have to START with a 7x7 pit.

If you're in an environment where it's too hot for water to ever freeze, good luck.  You're going to have to either cheat/exploit, dig around the aquifer if you can where your multiple biomes cross, or (if that doesn't work/single biome embark/also not a cheater or exploiter) rig a pumping system to pump enough water out of the aquifer for your masons to VERY slowly smooth the walls or (in the frequent case of soil aquifers) build artificial walls, thus stopping the flow into the intended passage.

My first fort with an aquifer was, thankfully, one where the water only thaws 2 weeks in the summer in my northernmost biome.  My southern two biomes were permafrost; I breached the aquifer there, and now it NEVER melts.  I still built a wall, just in case.  After all, water should never be trusted to behave itself when your fortress is involved.

EDIT: If all you want is ice, not a way through it, omit my earlier plans for building a stairway.  Just dig down, channel away one square at a time, enjoy your new ice rink!

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Conan

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 11:59:05 pm »

Thanks Urist!

I hoped there was some other way than micromanaging the digging but oh well. Time to set up an expansive stonecrafting industry!

Farmerbob

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 12:17:55 am »

Oh yeah, that!

But I was thinking about more "honest" dorfy ways without using glitches. Any reliable method using dwarf-powered pumps?

You need a place to put water.  Lots and lots of water.  In a freezing biome you aren't going to have that at first unless you cheat by building next to the edge of the map and channeling the water out underground through a fortification at the edge of the map - which would need to be in stone, which you probably won't have access to in any case.

You can't make a mist generator without a couple Z-levels either.  In a freezing biome with aquifier close to the surface, you pretty much have to do a surface freeze & dig or have access to lava, or "cheat" in some way.

The only other thing I can think of offhand that might work that I haven't heard mentioned yet is a piece of burning lignite furniture in a room that you pump water into - however burning lignite needs two things.  Lignite and lava.  Neither of which you are likely to have access to without having already gotten through the aquifier.

You will need to micromanage the digging of holes, I'm afraid.
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NecroRebel

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 12:32:48 am »

...You need a place to put a lot of water to pierce an aquifer? Really? I'd think that you'd have one, given that you have an aquifer, which can absorb an infinite amount of water. Just cut a trench into the aquifer someplace you aren't going to be exposing to the surface (so it won't freeze) and pump your excess water into it.

Using dwarf-powered pumps to pierce an aquifer is possible, but difficult. This method seems to work, and can be done with dwarf power. Only takes 1 pump, too, which is nice if you're short on materials.
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Farmerbob

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2011, 01:03:21 am »

...You need a place to put a lot of water to pierce an aquifer? Really? I'd think that you'd have one, given that you have an aquifer, which can absorb an infinite amount of water. Just cut a trench into the aquifer someplace you aren't going to be exposing to the surface (so it won't freeze) and pump your excess water into it.

Using dwarf-powered pumps to pierce an aquifer is possible, but difficult. This method seems to work, and can be done with dwarf power. Only takes 1 pump, too, which is nice if you're short on materials.

I love these forums sometimes.  I don't feel bad when I'm proven wrong, because it's all about the !science!

I'll have to play with that aquifier method myself - looks promising.
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evileeyore

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 01:35:22 am »

Actually you two, check out the Less Fuss Aquifers Thread for the easiest methods to carve through an aquifer with only one pump and minimal mining.
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Conan

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2011, 10:42:27 am »

actually I'm not short on pumps since I brought 36 microcline with me.

I'm going to put the breaching off until after the next migrants come. Thanks for the help!



Actually you two, check out the Less Fuss Aquifers Thread for the easiest methods to carve through an aquifer with only one pump and minimal mining.
That was the one posted by NecroRebel, his link leads to the second page though.

andrewas

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2011, 10:54:55 am »

You can avoid micromanaging the channels by designating the layer below as restricted. Dwarves get encased when they try to path through the water before it freezes, if its marked restricted they will path around the fresh hole instead.
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Conan

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Re: Aquifer problems.
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2011, 10:56:43 am »

I thought about that but I was wondering if traffic designations can be made on undug or unknown areas. I'll give it a shot.