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[Draco18s]

quote:Originally posted by Kholint:
<STRONG>why no matter how much I make my dwarves pull on their pet cow's udders, no lovely white fluid comes out.   </STRONG>

They're bulls.

Er...wait...wouldn't that result in almost the same thing?

[Grek]

They can't reach the utter.

[Earthquake Damage]

Cows are too big to lift with one hand and thus can't be milked.

[zagibu]

Don't listen to the brain. It also tells you to drink gasoline, which gives you bad breath!

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>

They're bulls.

Er...wait...wouldn't that result in almost the same thing?</STRONG>

Well the main reason why milking cows is currently broken is that there's no way for the code to currently discriminate between what comes out of cows and what comes out of bulls.

Apologies for the awful, awful pun.

[hapes]

Well, in your senseless arguing over what makes a dragon and whether they should be immune to the heat, you've successfully avoided the point of my post:

1>  If dragons are immune to HEAT and BURN damage, then why did he die?

2>  If dragons are immune to only one of them, then why did he go in the magma?  He didn't dodge a blow and accidentally fall in, there was nobody to fight him.

[Hague]

Dragons are not reptiles. Quite in fact, they are in their own classification as dracoforms. (Of course, this is Shadowrun/Earthdawn I'm quoting here) There are effectively 4 varieties of dragons. Western Dragons, Eastern Dragons, Feathered Serpents and Aquatic. Each dragon has an elemental designation. Western Dragons resemble the classic reptilian form that we are all familiar with;these are the earth dragons. Eastern Dragons appear as long snake-like creatures with fur. Specifically, they appear as dragons do in Oriental culture. These are air dragons. Feathered Serpents appear as dragons do in South American culture. Great winged serpents with feathers. These are Fire Dragons. The final and most secluded variety are Aquatic dragons that look much like an underwater mammal. Smooth skin, no scales, and so on. These are obviously water dragons.

All dragons posess an innate form of telepathy that allows them to "talk" to anything sentient. Since dragons do not possess the facial movements and muscles to allow vocalization of words this ability is used to make up for it.

Dragons are dual-natured. That is to say, they exist in a magical ether-realm (astral space) at the same time as they exist on the physical plane. This dual nature makes them natural spell casters and simultaneously vulnerable to pollution and corruption of the ether and attacks by ethereal creatures and forces.

[Lord Licorice]

quote:Originally posted by hapes:
<STRONG>Well, in your senseless arguing over what makes a dragon and whether they should be immune to the heat, you've successfully avoided the point of my post:

1>  If dragons are immune to HEAT and BURN damage, then why did he die?

2>  If dragons are immune to only one of them, then why did he go in the magma?  He didn't dodge a blow and accidentally fall in, there was nobody to fight him.</STRONG>

Since the rest of the... ah, energetic individuals in this thread would rather discuss the trivia of imaginary critters than the reality of a possible bugged AI, I guess we'll have to figure it out ourselves.

Here's the dragon in the raws:

code:

[CREATURE:DRAGON]
   [NAME:dragon:dragons:draconic]
   [TILE:'D'][COLOR:2:0:0]
   [MODVALUE:50]
   [DRAGONFIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]
   [FANCIFUL]
   [MEGABEAST]
   [GENPOWER:5]
   [FREQUENCY:5]
   [PETVALUE:10000]
   [GRASSTRAMPLE:50]
   [BONECARN][PET_EXOTIC]
   [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
   [NOFEAR]
   [LIKES_FIGHTING]
   [PREFSTRING:terrible majesty]
   [BODY:QUADRUPED:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH]
   [BODYGLOSS:CLAW_FOOT]
   [SIZE:20]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:6:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
   [FAT:10]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [BIOME_ANY_LAND]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10040]

For comparison, here's a fire spirit:

code:

[CREATURE:SPIRIT_OF_FIRE]
   [NAME:spirit of fire:spirits of fire:spirit of fire]
   [TILE:'&'][COLOR:6:0:1]
   [FLIER]
   [MODVALUE:20]
   [FANCIFUL][DEFENDER]
   [TRAPAVOID][CAN_LEARN][CAN_SPEAK]
   [FIREBREATH][FIREIMMUNE][LIKES_FIGHTING][MAGMA_VISION]
   [GENPOWER:5]
   [BLOODTYPE:0]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [NOT_BUTCHERABLE][EVIL]
   [NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NOBREATHE][NOBLEED][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][RECKLESS]
      [NOSTUCKINS][SEVERONBREAKS][NOSKULL][NOSKIN][NOBONES][NOMEAT][NOTHOUGHT][NOEXERT]
   [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
   [NOFEAR][NOEXERT]
   [PREFSTRING:firey glow]
   [ITEMCORPSE:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:ASH:NO_MATGLOSS]
   [NOSMELLYROT]
   [BODY:HUMANOID_SIMPLE]
   [SIZE:11]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:6:BURN][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [NO_GENDER]
   [FIXED_TEMP:25000]
   [PERSONALITY:FRIENDLINESS:0:0:0]
   [PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:0:0]
   [PERSONALITY:TRUST:0:0:0]
   [PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:0:0]
   [PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:0:0]
   [PERSONALITY:COOPERATION:0:0:0]
   [PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:0:0]
   [SPHERE:FIRE]

So, the fire spirit uses [FIREIMMUNE] while the dragon uses [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER].  The wiki says that [FIREIMMUNE] makes you invulnerable to fire except for dragonbreath, and [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] extends the protection to dragonbreath (so dragons can't ignite themselves).  The spirit has [MAGMA_VISION], but aside from this I don't see anything the spirit has that the dragon doesn't have better (in the case of [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER]).

I can't actually identify why the dragon died in the magma at all, unless the dragon drowned in the lava and the resulting corpse burned up, since the spirit has [NOBREATHE].  Given dragons lack [MAGMA_VISION], maybe - and this is a big leap - the dragon went into the magma, was blinded, and flailed around until he asphyxiated and his corpse combusted.

Did you see the dragon taking damage and die, or did you only find its smoking remains?  Otherwise, [FIREIMMUNE_SUPER] may be missing something that allows creatures to avoid taking damage in magma.

[Align]

Perhaps FIREIMMUNE(_SUPER) shouldn't insinuate an ability to swim through magma. That should probably be MAGMACREATURE or something.

[dreiche2]

quote:Originally posted by hapes:
<STRONG>Well, in your senseless arguing over what makes a dragon and whether they should be immune to the heat, you've successfully avoided the point of my post:

1>  If dragons are immune to HEAT and BURN damage, then why did he die?

2>  If dragons are immune to only one of them, then why did he go in the magma?  He didn't dodge a blow and accidentally fall in, there was nobody to fight him.</STRONG>

1: There seems to be evidence that he is *not* immune to heat (see some posts in this thread, and my own experience). Furthermore, looking back at what Toady posted on the first page of this thread, it could be that the dragon actually *suffocated* in the magma before his corpse caught fire. As mentioned above, the spirit of fire on the other hand has [NOBREATHE].

Concerning the difference between spirit and dragon in terms of heat: I see a [FIXED_TEMP:25000] for the spirit - maybe that makes it immune to heat?

2: Are you sure there wasn't a "fight" with a pet? You wrote that you zoomed to the dragon and found him already in the magma channel. Again, this would coincide with my own experience: I had the case at least once where a hydra would spend hours chasing kittens all over the place, only to end up charging after them into a magma channel...

[hapes]

I don't have any evidence about the dragon chasing a kitten.  It is possible it suffocated.  I should have saved a copy of my world when the dragon came, but I didn't think of it.  NEXT TIME.