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Author Topic: Markdwarves only defense  (Read 1069 times)

ext0l

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Markdwarves only defense
« on: April 29, 2011, 03:21:18 pm »

I'm planning a minimalists fort where the only defense will be marksdwarves.
I plan to have ~30 full time marksdwarves and ~15 other civilian dwarfs (mining, etc.)

I will embark next to a goblin tower for maximum fun.
Hopefully, I'll get all the basics done before the first caravan and then focus entirely on military.

Possible? Maybe.
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Hyndis

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 04:00:07 pm »

Works just fine. I use this defense in my current fortress. 30 marksdwarves can make short work of nearly anything. They don't use fortifications or even a twisty path for goblins to wind back and forth on. Just a tight grouping of 30 marksdwarves doing training in the barracks right before the main doors of the fortress. There are no archery ranges, just an artifact armor stand make into a small barracks.

By the time they run out of ammo the goblin onslaught is crippled. They then beat the survivors to death with their crossbows while the pincushioned survivors try to slowly crawl away to escape.

Setting this up is very easy as well. Just make the best armor you can, with the best metal you have access to. Put the ammo stockpile just inside the main gate, close to the barracks the marksdwarves are in. Only make metal bolts. Wooden and bone bolts are garbage. Then put your squads on active/training and just leave them like that. They will teach each other combat skills and automatically engage any hostiles. They will train up very rapidly without needing archery ranges.

At first what they lack in accuracy they will make up for with volume of fire, but you should have elite marksdwarves within a few years from using goblin sieges as target practice. Then you get both accuracy and volume of fire, which is a fearsome combination.

Here is my setup:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-27136-gatehouse

I ought to upload an updated version. Same layout, it just looks nicer and no more temporary ramps.

Those 30 marksdwarves will slaughter everything in short order.
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Icee77

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 07:17:58 pm »

For some reason, my MarksDwarves don't train on my archery range, just randomly train in the barracks in wrestling and picking up equipment. Heck, the last time I sent that squad out to kill an annoying cow, they took around 2 minutes missing with their bolts and 5 seconds beating it to death.
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Number7

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 08:59:14 pm »

i've had trouble with archery ranges, but found a fix. if you make a SEPARATE range for each target in its own room, more than 1 dwarf will train. at best, i've seen 6 dwarves all shooting targets at once. it was wonderful
(make sure each range is appointed for that squad to train at, it probably means like 8 ranges per squad)
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krenshala

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 09:25:23 pm »

i've had trouble with archery ranges, but found a fix. if you make a SEPARATE range for each target in its own room, more than 1 dwarf will train. at best, i've seen 6 dwarves all shooting targets at once. it was wonderful
(make sure each range is appointed for that squad to train at, it probably means like 8 ranges per squad)
You can have all the targets in one room, and still have them all designated as archery ranges.  This is how I did it, and had all six targets in use at once.

Oh, Hyndis, I use bone bolts because accuracy and volley size make up for the lower penetration of bone ... and you can then turn your victims into more bone bolts. ;)  Of course, if you have sufficient metal for armor AND bolts, you might as well take advantage of that.

Your training-at-the-front-door method is what I use as well.  A barracks in the entry hall, so anything that tries to break in interrupts the active squad's sparring; the squad gets annoyed, kills the intruder, and goes back to sparring. :D
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Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 09:39:29 pm »

I have a hard time training marks dwarves with bone bolts because my bolt output can never match my training needs. Two or three dwarves grab all the bolts as they're made, then expend them all before the next batch is done.
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SirAaronIII

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 09:47:26 pm »

i've had trouble with archery ranges, but found a fix. if you make a SEPARATE range for each target in its own room, more than 1 dwarf will train. at best, i've seen 6 dwarves all shooting targets at once. it was wonderful
(make sure each range is appointed for that squad to train at, it probably means like 8 ranges per squad)
This works very well. Always make sure you have:
1. quivers
2. crossbows
3. ammo
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krenshala

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 10:43:21 pm »

I have a hard time training marks dwarves with bone bolts because my bolt output can never match my training needs. Two or three dwarves grab all the bolts as they're made, then expend them all before the next batch is done.
Don't forget to set how many bolts they pick up at a time.  m - f - select the squad (don't forget hunters) - specify how many they use at a time (on the number pad: / subtracts 100, * adds 100, - subtracts 10, + adds 10).  For some reason it defaults to 100 bolts, which is probably why you run out and other people complain about their hunters stealing all the ammo before the military can get to it.  I typically set it to 20 bolts for hunters and 30 (what a quiver is supposed to be able to hold, iirc) for military crossbow-dwarves.
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Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Psieye

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 07:12:54 am »

That's not how many they pick up at a time. That's how many each squad (hunters are their own squad) hoard for themselves. Other squads can't use bolts assigned to a given squad.
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wuphonsreach

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2011, 07:56:27 am »

For a 5 dwarf squad, a setting of 250 metal for combat and 250 bone for training is not out of line.  That means each dwarf has 50 of each reserved for them and quivers hold 20-25(?).  I always set the hunters to 100 bone and 100 wood bolts.

So in terms of "do I have enough ammo", you should take the above number and multiply by 2x or 4x.  If your dwarves are training/hunting frequently, then go with 4x-6x.  A fortress with 2000 ammo (of all types) is what I shoot for which generally means about 500-750 metal, 300-500 wood and 400-800 bone bolts.  Plus assorted odd arrows.  In more mature forts, I often have 3k-5k ammo counts.

Keep bone / wood / metal bolts in separate stockpiles.  I generally put a 5-10 tile bone bolt stockpile near the training room, and have other 5-10 bone bolt stockpiles spread around near the entrance.  I'll repeat this style for the wood bolts.  Metal bolts are kept in separate, smaller stockpiles up on the ramparts or near the barracks.
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Hyndis

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Re: Markdwarves only defense
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 10:17:13 am »

Problem with using bone or wood bolts is that you really won't kill anything. Its okay for hunting, but not for goblins. Their armor will deflect almost all of the damage, meaning you'll empty an entire quiver into a goblin without actually killing the goblin.

Metal bolts tend to pierce through armor so you can actually kill goblins from range.
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