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Author Topic: Questions about milking  (Read 3350 times)

Jaredus

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Questions about milking
« on: April 26, 2011, 08:31:01 pm »

So I've done some pretty standard fortresses so far, and thought I'd try something different. I've just started a fort that will exclusively rely on above ground crops and cheese. Is there any particular details I should know that isn't covered in the wiki? Is milking kinda like getting eggs from birds?
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slink

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 09:10:31 pm »

It's not so automatic because you have to set a Farmer's Workshop to Milk Creature, and supply some buckets.  It's pretty easy to set up, though.
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dwarf_sadist

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 09:12:46 pm »

Yeah, you can milk pretty much anything with breasts.
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Jaredus

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 09:30:24 pm »

Yeah, you can milk pretty much anything with breasts.
soooo much that could be said about that. anyway, so it's something i have to actually keep up with? so if i wanted to embark with some milkable animals should i embark with a lot? or could i get away with 1 or 2 in the beginning and still get a pretty good supply of milk?
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cdrcjsn

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2011, 11:05:12 pm »

Get used to sheep and goat milk (maybe alpacas as well).

Animals larger than those are hard to take care of due to the need to graze.

You should definitely embark with a ton of milk from each type of creature though.  These cost 1 point each and grant you a barrel for every 10 units of milk.  So if you embark with 11 units of milk from 8 different creatures, you'll end up with 16 free barrels after you convert them all to cheese.

Asking the dwarf merchants to bring you lots of milk is also a good way to run your cheese industry.  They'll bring huge amounts if you request it.
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mimmfantry

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 12:34:51 am »

Yeah, you can milk pretty much anything with breasts.

reminds me of the movie quote
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nanomage

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 03:42:14 am »

use sheep for that, cattle eats far too much and goats can't be sheared.
request a ram and four ewes from the liaison and watch your cheese and clothing and meat industries rolling!
milk and shear them on repeat and butcher every ram except the largest one.
they breed like rabbits and two or three 10x10 pastures should be enough for all of them. alpacas are 1.4 times bigger so they's require one and a half times more pasture land, and llamas are three times bigger which makes them not an option i think. cattle is just broken as it is.
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Hurgal

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2011, 06:54:40 am »

I'm currently running a cheese-based fort, and I'll echo the call to cull the cattle to an extent.  Yaks and Water Buffalo eat way too much to breed.  I'd recommend only getting a few females and sticking them in max size pastures.  Horses, Donkeys, and Cows are tough, but doable.  Make lots of max size pastures and only put a few (I'd have to check my numbers for each breed's specific numbers) in each one.  It takes a good bit of micro-managing to make sure the numbers are maintained, what with all the breeding that goes on, but once you reach a point where your population stabilizes, it gets easier.
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boyhowdy

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 10:11:40 am »

It could potentially be misleading to link the size of the animals to how much grazing space they need.  All grazing animals have a tag that specifies how much they need to eat in order to survive that is independent of their size.  Now, I imagine that if you charted size and grazing in vanilla raws they'd look correlational, but my point is that they don't have to be.

Fortunately, !!science!! has been done on this subject (see this thread) which should make planning your pastures a bit easier.
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Dutchling

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2011, 12:14:38 pm »

It could potentially be misleading to link the size of the animals to how much grazing space they need.  All grazing animals have a tag that specifies how much they need to eat in order to survive that is independent of their size.  Now, I imagine that if you charted size and grazing in vanilla raws they'd look correlational, but my point is that they don't have to be.

Fortunately, !!science!! has been done on this subject (see this thread) which should make planning your pastures a bit easier.
Toady just divided size by some number to get the grazing tags IIRC. so size makes up for like 100% of the grazing needs.
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nanomage

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Re: Questions about milking
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 12:38:57 pm »

It could potentially be misleading to link the size of the animals to how much grazing space they need.  All grazing animals have a tag that specifies how much they need to eat in order to survive that is independent of their size.  Now, I imagine that if you charted size and grazing in vanilla raws they'd look correlational, but my point is that they don't have to be.
Yes you're right in that they don't have to correlate, but in fact they do. Size not only correlates with grazer tag value, but defines it strictly.

It may be not bad as first fough approximation for size to define the grazer value not taking the species of animal in consideration, but the relationship between them is linear in df, and this is wrong.

In fact, animal mass (what is meant by "size" in df) increases as the third power of linear size, and the amount of energy it uses and thus the amount of food it must consume should not generally increase as the third power of linear size, at least for warm-blooded creatures.

If we assume that a creature spends energy on
a) movement and
b) heat dissipation
we see that heat dissipation increases as the square of linear size.(roughly, even slower in fact due to lower temperature of bigger creatures)
Muscular strength grows as the square of linear size, and creature's speed does not grow as fast as it's linear size. So, roughly, power grows slower than the cube of linear size, too.


All in all, grazer tag values as they are are either too small for large creatures or too large for small ones.
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