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[Darvi]

INT and WIS 2 is impossible for a PC

[nenjin]

Together, yes. Either is possible through race.

[Darvi]

Only wis. Int gets bumped to 3

[Sowelu]

My point was that if you're really that "utterly insane", you're probably not playable.  So un-playable, in fact, that you might not even be capable of having an alignment.

[nenjin]

The killer in Se7en versus your garden variety poo-flinging schizophrenic. There are room for both that still respects alignment and stat values.

Unfortunately, I've known more than one player who would gladly play the latter.

[Neonivek]

The best Neutrals are the "Other motivation" Neutrals. In otherwords characters who don't care about being good or evil, they just have a different code of ethics that brings it outside the allignment system such as honor or nature.

I also like to bring up the how good can act evil because for some reason evil isn't held to that restriction especially since holding up evil... to be evil... is well... stupid... outright.

I mean could you imagine a DM going to an evil player "You didn't eat that baby"
Player: "But it is my baby"
DM: "Is that MERCY I am hearing? That baby is nothing but a burden!"
Player: "But... it is my baby... I love my baby"
DM: "DID I HEAR LOVE!!! Evil doth have love!"

[Darvi]

You know how people play CN so they can pull off evil things in a good campaign? I managed to be the "nice" guy in an evil campaign with my CN tiefling warlock/illusionist.

But that was because I would only take people's precious things and not their life :V

[Neonivek]

You know how people play CN so they can pull off evil things in a good campaign?

Yes...

Given that Evil is often bared by DMs because well... players don't know how to play evil characters in a good campaign.

[Sowelu]

There's many different shades and degrees.

Heh.  One of my friends played a ghoul in a generally-good campaign.  He was nonviolent, never hurt anybody, and was quite successful at being evil.  See, this kind of undead is always evil-aligned.  Paladins can't associate with evil characters.  But they also couldn't really kill him as a good act because he said he dedicated himself to pacifism, and had to follow the party around to eat the corpses they left behind (since that's what he needs to eat to survive).

He constantly thought of ways to betray them, but never acted on them because it would blow his cover and risk his (un)life--but since it's thoughts and not actions that count for alignment, he was still quite evil.

...Personally, I wouldn't have allowed him to get away from "I'm nice therefore paladin-proof" in my campaign, but still.  :|

[Neonivek]

Yeah there are always exceptions to any of the "Players do this badly" and "DMs do this badly"

For example where I used to hang out the DMs actually believed wish HAD to backfire no matter how reasonable the wish was. For example if someone wished someone dead, instead of casting a death spell (WELL within the written rules of Wish) the DMs would just massacre the player. In otherwords "Wish" a spell meant to be a cost ineffective spell was made useless.
-Especially odd given that the Wish spell is specifically written to be capable of failing. Look it up, you can actually Will save against Wish.

Yes from what I found out, it is by far the exception and that I was in a very weird place.

Mind you I am not that much better as a player and I got worse as I kept going.

Though I don't get the exceptions... I get the steriotypes... DANG IT!

[Vorthon]

So...

The DMPC I've put together for the campaign has been revised from a straight-up Cleric to a multiclass Bard/Cleric with one level in each.

Considering the character's domains are Charm (from the 3.5e SRD) and Trickery, what would be a good build for a character like this? Not good min/max-wise, good in terms of roleplaying potential.

[Darvi]

Hmm. Charm and suggestion for one, obviously. Glibness. Disguise self.