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Author Topic: in search of the ideal marksdwarf uniform (also general armor questions)  (Read 10448 times)

Brent Not Broken

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So, I'm sorting through the Armor page on the wiki and I think I am figuring out the specifics, but I'm trying to set up a "best" armor loadout for marksdwarves, settling at the most advantageous intersection of easy-to-produce, thorough protection, and style.

The wiki is not clear on one point, though: are there any pieces of armor (in particular, I'm worried about shields, bucklers, and gauntlets) which interfere with marksdwarves' ability to shoot? The wiki is leaving me with the impression that dwarves can somehow aim, fire, and reload crossbows with only one hand (and that shields should not get in the way); is this correct?

Also, just how much does heavy metal armor hold marksdwarves back? Am I sacrificing a lot by decking them out in steel (or, alternately, by going leather-only?)

It seems like when behind fortifications, head and hand injuries are the most common (from enemies shooting up through the fortifications). So, assuming marksdwarves stay behind fortifications where they belong (hah!), I think I can get by with metal gauntlets, metal helms, and maaaaybe metal mail shirts, and use leather for the rest. Am I missing anything important?

As for some general armor questions not confined to marksdwarves, how much does material matter for items that are counted as "clothes" no matter what they're made of? (i.e., Does a leather cloak or hood protect better than a cloth one, or does it matter?) Also, how much of a benefit does redundant layering actually give a dwarf? (i.e., Once a dwarf gets fitted out in full steel, does he still need his leather robe, or can that be discarded safely?)
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Kassil

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Redundant layering seems to be regarded as the Best Option, probably because attacks that check for it have to bypass each layer before doing damage.

As for the rest, this calls for !!SCIENCE!! in the Arena!
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Wheelbarrows with wheels are inferior to the true wheelbarrow.
you mean elves with loads of stone loaded onto their backs while walking on their hands with dwarves holding their legs to guide them?

FuzzyZergling

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Yes dwarves can hold a shield (multiple shields, even) without interfering with their accuracy or rate of fire.
Heavy armor will lower their speed, causing them to fire less often, but usually offers much better protection.

Yes, leather items will be better than cloth. In fact, leather shield are better than metal due to shield being currently indestructible.
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Brent Not Broken

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In fact, leather shield are better than metal due to shield being currently indestructible.
What makes a leather shield better than a metal one? Is it just a shield is a shield is a shield, so you might as well go with a cheap leather one?
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akinzle

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Shields work differently than worn armor because attacks can never pierce them, regardless of the shields material. Since material doesn't affect a shields chance to block an attack, it doesn't make sense to waste precious metals like steel and CC. At least, this is my understanding of shields in their current state, correct me if I'm wrong.
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FuzzyZergling

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In fact, leather shield are better than metal due to shield being currently indestructible.
What makes a leather shield better than a metal one? Is it just a shield is a shield is a shield, so you might as well go with a cheap leather one?
Leather is lighter, it won't slow your dwarves down.
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wuphonsreach

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Bronze also works well for shields (due to weight).

Standard kit for my dwarves is always:

metal mail
metal breastplate
leather cloak
silk cloak
plant cloth cloak (variety is the spice of life)
metal helm
leather hood
hood (any)
leather mittens
metal gauntlets
leather trousers
metal greaves
metal high boots
metal shield
crossbow (or individual choice, melee)

No socks/shoes because they tend to cause problems with dwarves wearing the high boots.  No robes because they tend to be "foreign" in my embarks.  I don't layer my mail shirts, but could add a 2nd mail shirt.  I do layer cloaks because I like to have one of each type and I do layer hoods.  I don't bother to specify material, because the dwarves are smart enough about upgrades, unless artifacts get involved.  They'll grab copper, then bronze, then iron, then steel automatically as it comes available, and the secondary squads get the hand-me-downs.

Match type is set to "full match" (not "partial match") and the uniform is set to "replace clothing".
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darkflagrance

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There is the factor that the dwarves will occasionally hit enemies with shields in close-combat, in which case material would probably matter (I believe it does blunt object damage in that case?)

But unless your marksdwarves will be firing off a few volleys and then closing with the surviving targets, leather should be fine for them.
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...as if nothing really matters...
   
The Legend of Tholtig Cryptbrain: 8000 dead elves and a cyclops

Tired of going decades without goblin sieges? Try The Fortress Defense Mod

EveryZig

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There is the factor that the dwarves will occasionally hit enemies with shields in close-combat, in which case material would probably matter (I believe it does blunt object damage in that case?)

But unless your marksdwarves will be firing off a few volleys and then closing with the surviving targets, leather should be fine for them.
Heavier is better when it comes to using shields in mele combat (for shield-bashing), so for melee copper makes the best shields (silver/lead are even better, but are only made in moods) {Confirmed with !!Science!!}. For ranged, if you don't expect your archers to do any short ranged fighting, lighter shields weigh you down less.
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Soaplent green is goblins!

Dwarfoloid

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Yes, leather items will be better than cloth. In fact, leather shield are better than metal due to shield being currently indestructible.

I think cloth is better than leather actually. At least plant fiber and silk. Heavy clothing articles like robes and cloaks made out of plant fiber will make mockery out of light metal weapons (such as large daggers that Goblin kidnappers carry).

In adventure mode, I had to kick the bandits that had rope reed robes to death (or slash at their legs if cloaks) when I was armed with just the starting copper dagger (human outsider, sold the spear for backpack).
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 03:20:57 pm by Dwarfoloid »
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psychologicalshock

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Yes, leather items will be better than cloth. In fact, leather shield are better than metal due to shield being currently indestructible.

I think cloth is better than leather actually. At least plant fiber and silk. Heavy clothing articles like robes and cloaks made out of plant fiber will make mockery out of light metal weapons (such as large daggers that Goblin kidnappers carry).

In adventure mode, I had to kick the bandits that had rope reed robes to death (or slash at their legs if cloaks) when I was armed with just the starting copper dagger (human outsider, sold the spear for backpack).

Wait so some robes can actually stop a dagger?
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Shogger

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Yes, leather items will be better than cloth. In fact, leather shield are better than metal due to shield being currently indestructible.

I think cloth is better than leather actually. At least plant fiber and silk. Heavy clothing articles like robes and cloaks made out of plant fiber will make mockery out of light metal weapons (such as large daggers that Goblin kidnappers carry).

In adventure mode, I had to kick the bandits that had rope reed robes to death (or slash at their legs if cloaks) when I was armed with just the starting copper dagger (human outsider, sold the spear for backpack).

Wait so some robes can actually stop a dagger?

Yeah. It's not uncommon, what with DF's combat being as unpredictable as it is, for normal clothing to deflect attacks. If one of your civilians ever gets attacked by a thief or snatcher, check the combat logs, you may see a few blocks from their clothing. Heavier weapons and higher quality metals, however, will still shred right through clothing.
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