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[Truean]

So I'm going to be one and the whole industry is screwed right now, but I know what I'm doing so I might start my own firm.

Really, the whole system is messed up. I've seen people who can't afford jack but are innocent and people who are guilty as hell but can afford stuff. Why the crap is that? I mean really, damn if I'm going to provide my services for free. I mean after 8 years of school after high school and all the crap I've had to go through, screw all if people think I'm doing this for free. Would you work for free? Hell no? Didn't think so.

Yet, through all that, I can't seem to freaking find some way to make things afforadable for people. I mean if I give people a payment plan, then they tend to screw me over on the payment plan and never pay shit. Yet, if I ask for it up front it's a major hardship. I can't believe there's no way to make this manageable. Any ideas?

[Ricky]

Well I've never heard a lawyer say "stuff" besides cousin Vinny, but have you tried payments in other stuff (har har)? What I mean is, have you tried bargaining for items instead of money?

Client: But... I just can't pay that much!

You: Well, that IS a mighty fine couch you have...

Client: Shit.

[Truean]

I dunno.

[Neonivek]

There isn't much of a difference between a good lawyer and a great lawyer.

There is a huge difference between a terrible one and a decent one.

Lawyers arn't evil it just comes from grave misunderstandings of what lawyers actually do. For one Lawyers don't PROVE anything.

So really I don't see what is wrong with actually charging money so long as the cheaper lawyers arn't scum.

Some lawyers take low paying clients as well

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Sometimes, being a good person requires sacrificing oppertunity for the good of others. If you charge high, you'll be in quite good financial straights, but if you charge low (or even not at all) no one will be able to question your status as a good person but you'll be poor. Thus is the problem of blanket descisions.

As such, I think you should decide your client's payments on a case-by-case basis. If you come across one of these people who are innocent but lack money? Offer them your services dirt cheap. Will you make as much money as you could this way? Almost certainly not, but there are rewarding things in the world beyond money, and protecting the innocent at cost to yourself can be that. Of course, not all of your clients will be like that, and that's how you can make money, from those who have a chance of paying a normal rate for your services without being plunged into lifelong debt if they actually manage to get a large enough loan to hire non-court-appointed legal counsel in the first place.

I realize that that plan is going to sound extremely unappealing to you because of all the hard work you put into entering this field of work, but that's all I've got. Just keep in mind that you are a part of the justice system by being a lawyer, and thus have sway over what happens in courtrooms. You say that there's no justice, but you, Truean, can try to change that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while you put yourself at high risk of being taken advantage of, trying to help people with a higher level of selflessness means that you will save innocent people from wrongful imprisonment/life-crippling fines, and that can be more valuble than all the money in the world.

[Zrk2]

What about just doing the occasional case pro bono?

[Moogie]

Well I've never heard a lawyer say "stuff" besides cousin Vinny, but have you tried payments in other stuff (har har)? What I mean is, have you tried bargaining for items instead of money?

Client: But... I just can't pay that much!

You: Well, that IS a mighty fine couch you have...

Client: Shit.

Lol, ok would you rather me say "my specifically applied legal services related to your court matter?" Does that make you feel better somehow? I mean really a rose by any other name. I can get as fancy and latin as you'd like, I really can with the best of them. Does that help you one bit in front of the judge and jury, not really. Yeah sure I wouldn't say that if I'm charging you, but I'm not charging you now am I? That's a no....

Simply, it costs a lot of time, effort and money to do what I do and people who need what I do done, don't have it. This is a problem. How to solve it.... That is the question most lawyers never ask and the reason there is no damn justice in this country. Tell me I'm wrong?

(As for the barter argument, it has its flaws. Say you fix my car for legal services. Then it breaks... yeah. See how that falls apart? quickly?) [pun entirely intended]

~Lawyer Score~

Quick Offensive - 500pts!
(Requirement: Rant for at least 1 entire paragraph against an opponent's passive remark)

Beastly Rhetoric - (100 x 4) 400pts!
(Requirement: Chain combo rhetorical questions in a single paragraph)

Sidestep - 200pts!
(Requirement: Avoid the opponent's main question for at least two entire paragraphs)

Solid Rebuke - (1 x 50) 50pts!
(Requirement: Supply valid counter-arguments to an opponent's main question)

SCORE: 1150
FINAL RANK: Legitimate Lawyer!

[hemmingjay]

You have to decide what type of business you want to run or can run at this point. Use food service as a clear example. McDonalds serves millions of hungry people with very little money by owning tens of thousands of franchises and letting others manage each franchise location for them. The local steakhouse down the street provides an excellent meal but not everyone can afford it. Neither one can be successful without proper understanding of business and sufficient financial resources backing the venture. While you can probably handle things on your own for a while you will eventually need an office manager and/or accountant soon enough if you are successful. That costs money, which you need to charge your clients for.

To answer another sub-question you asked.......there are financial services that offer payment plans to your customers so that it isn't you taking on the risk and increased costs of tracking payments.

[kaenneth]

I have a friend who's a criminal defense (mostly DUI) lawyer, and yeah, it's a problem right now. Charge too little, and you're giving up money you may need, Charge too much, and they'll go to another lawyer. What he does is give the first hour free to get the basics of the case; and come up with a flat-fee offer for that client's pre-trial defense. (99% of his clients end up with acceptable plea bargains) That way the client can be comfortable knowing exactly how much they'll have to pay. Sometimes cases take more work than estimated, sometimes, less, it averages out.

He does sometimes accept payment plans depending on the client; and most of the clients do pay him. You just have to accept that some clients may not be able to make all their payments (at least not until they get out of jail  ), but getting some of the money for a case is better than nothing at all.

As a lawyer, you may also in a position to file a civil case and get judgements againt non-paying clients yourself... but "He who represents himself..." probably applies to lawyers themselves...

The last, and probably most important thing is, be willing to turn down clients if it dosn't 'feel' right. If your intuition says 'sleazebag', 'liar', 'scam' be willing to walk away from cash. My friend has had... problems with clients that he didn't trust in the first place, but needed the money from. It's not worth it.

(I just had a terrible thought, that being able to tell if someone is a liar is like 'gaydar' for lawyers...)

[hemmingjay]

The easiest way to tell if someone is a liar is check if they have an opposable thumb.

[Truean]

The easiest way to tell if someone is a liar is check if they have an opposable thumb.

[nods] I'll never make it in this business because I have a conscience and a very unfortunate tendency to tell the truth to clients in a business where no one ever says what they mean.

[hemmingjay]

don't worry, you'll soon learn to just withhold information rather than lie. You need to survive as a business in order to be available to help those who need you.